Hitlers most crucial mistake?

[Jack the collector]

Hobilar,

That is not what I said,read my previous post..."The germans had the Me262 ready to go in 1939 and could have cleaned the skies if they had put it in production."You are actually making the point I was making.....the dalay of making it operational was good for the allies and the eventual victory.


By the way to all,this is nice!Points and counter points,discussion and we all learn a little.No bickering or whining.....this is the way it is suppose to be.

[Sarge]

I dont think we would have seen the ME262 much before the end of 1943. Even then it had some major drawbacks. The biggest one being its engines.

They could only last a maximum of 12 hours before change, where as the UK Meteor was perhaps the better fighter with much more adapted and usefull engines. This no doubt would have been rushed into production along with US jets if the event had happened, so at best, as in WW1 any new technological improvement by one side is always countered by the other.

A good ME262 history can be found here:

The Messerschmitt Me262

I do like discussons where opposing points are listened too and agree very much on this as a way forward.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

I would say not listening to Rommel, Manstein and Guderian's advices before it was too late, after 1943.

Kevin

[Wurzburg]

To me this is simple.

When a non military person decides what happens and when. It screws that whole system.

He should never have been allowed to order and design battles.

that being said: It would have been very hard foor the Generals and ranking officers to withold their support. It is well known that some did and that they either retired on their own or went missing. Hitler simply replaced those officers with idiots dedicated to him.

After a battle or line of defense is planed and setup. the civilian powers should have not had a single word. It should have been up to the general in charge on who and what get's deployed or when the reserve is used.

[515]

Ive got a couple

-first being to attack Russia when they did. They may of had a better army but they didnt have the best intelligence of the area. They were advancing so fast that the supplies didnt have a chance to catch up with the army. Then Hitler attacked Stalingrad. After a few months this city was pointless in value. Also, he abandoned the sixth army there. Just left them to die. He should have at least tried to rescue them. Then there was the Russian winter. They were in no means prepared for this environment. Many died becuase they had no winter clothes. He should have thought this one through more.
-Africa. Hilter basically ignored this part of the war. Rommel asked for reenforments and he got a couple tanks and men. Stopping the allies here would of helped out in the war effort.
-Britan. not finishing the battle of britan hurt the luftwaffe extremely. They lost many planes and many good aces. He should of finsihed this battle and conquered britan.
-Technology. The reich was very advanced when it came to technology. They were very close on their atomic advances. They were close on their missle systems. They basically could have shot down thousands of bombers with their jet fighters. They should have brought more of their technology weapons into play.
-Hitler. He was the biggest mistake. He should have never even been let near the battle planes. He had no idea what he was doing. He would fire any general who simply retreated to save his troops. Then he would find some retard general who only knew that he was to serve hitler. So, i think that he was the biggest mistake.

[Ingsoc]

He made two big mistakes:

* After the defeat of France, he should made it his top priority to concentrate on building u-boats, with enought of a larg u-boat fleet he could starve Britain into submission.

* Barbarosa, not the invasion itself but more the "ideological" way that it's conducted, the barbarism of the German forces alienated a population that would very much likely be friendly to the enemies of Stalinsm, a more logical way would have to found a puppet Russian "national" anti-bolshevik goverment, with the combined power of the great reich and Russia at his hands, Hitler would be much powerfull and in a better position to defeat Britain.

[Jack the collector]

Ingsco brings up an interesting point about the "ideological" manner in which the eastern war was carried out.I have always wondered how the war in the east would have turned if the Germans had brought some of the undesirables into the fold.In particular the Slavs.They were viewed as subhuman,these were the people who first greeted the Germans as liberators.The millions who would have fought(possibly) for the Reich.Lets not forget that Hitler was not dumb and he could have very well used them then subjugated them later.Alfred Rosenberg even brought this idea(befriending the slavs) to his attention and Hitler dismissed it.

[Ingsoc]

Originally Posted by Jack the collector

Ingsco brings up an interesting point about the "ideological" manner in which the eastern war was carried out.I have always wondered how the war in the east would have turned if the Germans had brought some of the undesirables into the fold.In particular the Slavs.They were viewed as subhuman,these were the people who first greeted the Germans as liberators.The millions who would have fought(possibly) for the Reich.Lets not forget that Hitler was not dumb and he could have very well used them then subjugated them later.Alfred Rosenberg even brought this idea(befriending the slavs) to his attention and Hitler dismissed it.

Indeed, but even with the barbaric policy still many non-russian people that live in the USSR join the German forces and there were about 800 thousends russians who join the "national" army of general Andrei Vlasov, now just imagine that those number could be much more bigger if the Nazis would have use some restrain and diplomacy.

[Spinechicken]

Good stuff so far, let me drop in a couple of different ones, or at least variations on the theme.

1. The haltbefehl in May 1940, that effectively gave the British forces all the time they needed to establish the escape route via Dunkirk. Okay, the panzer divisions were overstretched, but given how fast the front was crumbling had they continued...the course of the war may have been different. The loss of nearly 200,000 British troops that early on would have spelt disaster for Britain.

2. The declaration of war on the USA. Admittedly, the US was supplying the British and the Russians with equipment prior to 1941, but actively bringing her industrial and military strength into the war meant that the war in the West could never be won.

3. The 'No Retreat' order. How many effective divisions were lost, or debilitatingly depleted because Hitler refused to allow them to withdraw? How much suffering was caused in late 44/early 45 because he refused to allow the evacuation of cities? Forces that were wasted holding useless pieces of land could have been used to at least hold the line just a little bit longer.

-SC

[Ingsoc]

1. No doubt that the lost of the forces in Dunkirk would have been a hard blow to Britain, however it's wouldn't made Hitler any closer to beating the RAF and to a full invasion to the British Islands.

2. Considering Japan was Germany ally and it's was in war with both Britain and the USA, I think even that if Hitler didn't declare war the Americans would still be sending forces to Europe.

3. Agree, however in the end it's wouldn't change the big picture, Germany would have defeated, it's would only prolong the war.