Hitlers most crucial mistake?

[Klaus]

In my opinion it is defenitly "Operation Barbarossa".

They hardly knew anything about the territory they were invading.
They were not sure about the military strength of the USSR.
They underastimated the weather conditions big time.
They overestimated their own speed.

It is your turn now. What do you think was Hitlers most crucial mistake...?

[Hobilar]

Originally Posted by Klaus

In my opinion it is defenitly "Operation Barbarossa".


They were not sure about the military strength of the USSR.
It is your turn now. What do you think was Hitlers most crucial mistake...?

Actually that is not strictly true

The population of the Soviet Union was then some c.120 million

The population of the 'Greater Reich' was some 96 million, plus around another 29 million people in Finland, Hungary, Bulgaria etc.

So in fact the Germans could theoretically put more men into the field than the USSR. They also had more modern equipment, combat experienced roops, and the element of surprise which allowed a quick occupation of the Soviet Union's most populace, most industrious and most agricultural areas.

[Klaus]

Thats true. But as I said: they didn't know exactly what they were up against. The surprise was on ther side, but they had little intelligence about the enemy.

[Tom Houlihan]

I would say that Barbarossa was only half the mistake. The first half was not defeating England, or failing that, getting them out of the war by other means.

Before striking east, he should have consolidated everything, and gotten it all under control to the best of his ability. Stalin wasn't expecting anything, he still had time to catch him off guard.

[Sarge]

I would definately agree with Tom. Not taking the UK out of the war created a two front war.

While Germany perhaps could have taken on the Soviets on more equal terms without this, they eventually had to fight a war on 4 fronts while the Russians, once they knew the Japanese were no threat, only had to concentrate on one front.

Hitlers greatest mistake was thinking that only he was a military genius and he knew more than his Generals.

[Jack the collector]

When I signed up today,I thought I would lurk and get a feel for the "place".Nope I have to wade in straight away.Naturally we can discuss the 2 front war till we are blue in the face.However,I have a couple of points to make.

In my opinion,Hitlers first mistake was turning and going to Stalingrad.Granted it was a economically sound stradegy.BUT,not taking Moscow and driving the entire russian force and leadership behind the Urals.Once behind the Urals the eastern war would have probably become a stalemate.

Second,His leaving and trusting Goring with the Luftwaffe,later his own meddling in the luftwaffe.Goring did not have a clue...nuffsaid?Second,Hitler's making the Me262 a fighter bomber and waiting so late to put in in production.The germans had the Me262 ready to go in 1939 and could have cleaned the skies if they had put it in production.In 1988,I had the good fortune to talk to Gen. Adolf Galland for a hour.One question I asked him was could they have won the war with the Me262.He said,"Yes,it would have been over in 1943 at the latest.".Now that was his opinion and I think there is some validity to it.

Jack

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Jack the collector

When I signed up today,I thought I would lurk and get a feel for the "place".Nope I have to wade in straight away.Naturally we can discuss the 2 front war till we are blue in the face.However,I have a couple of points to make.

In my opinion,Hitlers first mistake was turning and going to Stalingrad.Granted it was a economically sound stradegy.BUT,not taking Moscow and driving the entire russian force and leadership behind the Urals.Once behind the Urals the eastern war would have probably become a stalemate.

Second,His leaving and trusting Goring with the Luftwaffe,later his own meddling in the luftwaffe.Goring did not have a clue...nuffsaid?Second,Hitler's making the Me262 a fighter bomber and waiting so late to put in in production.The germans had the Me262 ready to go in 1939 and could have cleaned the skies if they had put it in production.In 1988,I had the good fortune to talk to Gen. Adolf Galland for a hour.One question I asked him was could they have won the war with the Me262.He said,"Yes,it would have been over in 1943 at the latest.".Now that was his opinion and I think there is some validity to it.

Jack

No question not taking Moscow was a huge mistake, giving Stalin and Zhukov enough time to get ready for the battle and then to bring in the Siberian divisions and actually mount a counter-offensive.

And yes Goring was incompetent. Hitler realized that a bit too late.

As for General Galland's opinion, well that's just opinion and I would consider the source. They still would have needed to invade Britain. By 1943, the US was in the war and by 1945 had atomic weapons. Had the war dragged on, they might have been used in Germany. Imagine if the Luftwaffe had owned the skies all of those years and German cities had not been bombed, and suddenly Berlin is leveled by the bomb that eventually landed on Hiroshima?

Originally Posted by Sarge

Hitlers greatest mistake was thinking that only he was a military genius and he knew more than his Generals.

No question about it. He irritated them constantly.

Hitler made many mistakes. He observed in Mein Kampf that Germany lost the first war by attempting to fight a two front war. When his generals pointed that out to him when he was planning Barbarossa, he convinced them that Britain was effectively out of the war and that no invasion on the part of Britain was imminent. He planned on winning the war in the East before winter and so never intended to fight on a second front.

[Sarge]

Interesting points Jack.

Stalingrad was certainly a mistake, in fact the battle was never meant to take place, another example of Hitlers madness in taking an Army designed for mobile rapier thrusts into a built up area.

However, by the time of Stalingrad the US was in the War. Another moment of madness by der Fuhrer in declaring war on the US. Even if the Soviets sue for peace or are defeated the US is a bigger threat.

Also, I dont believe that the ME-262 would have made the impact that Galland stated, even though you have an excellent weapon (which the ME in 43 would probably have been), one weapon alone could not win the War.

No, I still think that without the UK as an island base for the US, the Germans still had a chance. Even though no one knew it, September 1940 was I think the time when Germany lost the War, it just took a long time to realise it.

[Jack the collector]

Jim,

Excellent point on the use of the Abomb.....I had never thought about it in that light.However,if the Me262 had been used the Battle of Britian may have turned out differently and the US entry may have been delayed or possibly stayed nuetral in the European war.

Lets remember,one thing tho.In 1940/41,Hitler was diagnoised with Parkinsons Disease.....a death sentence in those days.This is surly the reason he pushed his timetable up and pressed to finish the war.

Jack

[Hobilar]

Originally Posted by Jack the collector

Jim,

However,if the Me262 had been used the Battle of BRITAIN may have turned out differently and the US entry may have been delayed or possibly stayed neutral in the European war.

Impossible- The First flight of the prototype ME262 was not made until the 18 April 1941, and even then the flight was made with the aeroplane fitted with conventional piston engines. The Battle of Britain had been fought many months before that.