Stategic Bombing

[Klaus]

Originally Posted by Jim O

But not feeling good about it and accepting reality are two very different things.

Very, very true.

[Ingsoc]

Originally Posted by Jim O

I don't disagree with anything that you said, but it doesn't relate to my thesis. They didn't ask the question "Do you believe that Germany really lost the war?". I imagine that if you asked that question in 1945-48 the answer would have been a resounding "yes" based in part, at least, on the devastation wrought by the bombings, the occupation, food shortages, and the hardships of forced relocation of ethnic Germans into what was left of the country. If you asked that question in the 1920's the answer might not have been the same. A large portion of the population at that time subscribed to the "we were stabbed in the back" excuse for the loss in the first world war. That's the attitude adjustment to which I referred. Now that they knew they'd been really and truly beaten they were unlikely to try again.

I think it's natural for a defeated power to not feel good about it and that reflects in those numbers. People don't like to admit they made a mistake. (Ask anyone who has ever been divorced. ) But not feeling good about it and accepting reality are two very different things.

Actually it is relevant because you wrote "total destruction of much of Germany and her armed forces was going to force the necessary "attitude adjustment" on the collective psyche. Otherwise, the Allies risked the rise of another ultra-nationalist government and World War III." meaning you think that the abandon of nationalistic view was due to the bombing and defeat while I manage to prove you otherwise.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Ingsoc

Actually it is relevant because you wrote "total destruction of much of Germany and her armed forces was going to force the necessary "attitude adjustment" on the collective psyche. Otherwise, the Allies risked the rise of another ultra-nationalist government and World War III." meaning you think that the abandon of nationalistic view was due to the bombing and defeat while I manage to prove you otherwise.

You proved your interpetation to be "wrong" perhaps, but with statistics that are in my opinion irrelevant to my argument. But allow me to rephrase thus: Otherwise, the Allies risked the rise of another ultra-nationalist, expansionist government and World War III.

As it turns out, another ultra-nationalist government did not arise. Interpret the history as you will. We can disagree on the reasons, but as Benjamin Disraeli is alleged to have said (according to Mark Twain though others claim someone else actually is the originator of the statement):

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

"The semi-ironic statement refers to the persuasive power of numbers, and succinctly describes how even accurate statistics can be used to bolster an inaccurate argument through such methods as selectively choosing data." From Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[Klaus]

"Never trust statistics, you didn't falsify yourself."