Collaborators in France and Belgium

[Jim O]

Toward the end of the war, Nazi collaborators faced a variety of fates at the hands of locals and authorities. Depending on the severity of the involvement some were executed. Women who consorted with Germans were often subjected to humiliating treatment.

Here's how a collaborating Frenchman received his punishment:

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Here some men have been roughed up. I believe these are from France:

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[Jim O]

Some French women with new hairstyles:

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[Jim O]

Some Belgian women:

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I'm not sure of the locale of this photo:

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These one is being taunted on her way to get a haircut in Brignoles, August 19, 1944:

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[Lancer44]

In Poland women which had sexual contacts with German soldiers - not prostitutes - were punished in the same humiliating way of odd "hairstyle".

I have a feeling that circus in France with so called "horizontal" collaboration served well to turn attention from real collaborators, police, gendarmes and administration clerks.

Cheers,

Lancer44

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Lancer44

In Poland women which had sexual contacts with German soldiers - not prostitutes - were punished in the same humiliating way of odd "hairstyle".

I have a feeling that circus in France with so called "horizontal" collaboration served well to turn attention from real collaborators, police, gendarmes and administration clerks.

That may well be true though they did not all escape. These photos are all courtesy of USHMM Photo Archives.

Members of the Dutch resistance arrest and guard fellow countrymen accused of collaborating with the Germans during the occupation, or being members of Dutch Nazi Party on September 20, 1944 in Nijmegen.

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Here, Members of the Free French Forces of the Interior (FFI) lead the Judge and Mayor of Vesoul to prison for collaborating with the Germans on September 13, 1944

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And here, members of the Belgian resistance (the "FIN") arrest alleged collaborators in Couvin following the liberation of the town by Allied forces on September 4, 1944.

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Of course both the US and the Soviets protected higher level criminals that they found "useful" during the Cold War. I suspect Partisans killed many "administrative" collaborators along the way and after the war in may areas.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

Ashame, really, how they treated the women. How is a woman who falls in love with a German soldier a crime? And here is another one:

13 volunteers of the French 33. Waffen Grenadier Division der SS 'Charlemagne' were captured by French troops. General Leclerc asked them 'Why are you in German uniform?" And one of the volunteers replied "Why are you in American uniform?" Leclerc lost his patience and ordered the 13 men shot in the back of the head, despite protests from a French lieutenant, who instead executed the 12 men by firing squad. The 12 men died shouting 'Vive La France!' The 13th man was rumoured to have been the son of a General friend of Leclerc, and so was spared. Ironically, when Leclerc died in a air crash in the 1950s, there were 13 men on board. After the war Waffen-SS veterans built a memorial for their French comrades, and each year there is still a memorial service for them, although unfortuantely this year the politically correct German government is trying to restrict it.

K

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Helmut Von Moltke

Ashame, really, how they treated the women. How is a woman who falls in love with a German soldier a crime? And here is another one:

13 volunteers of the French 33. Waffen Grenadier Division der SS 'Charlemagne' were captured by French troops. General Leclerc asked them 'Why are you in German uniform?" And one of the volunteers replied "Why are you in American uniform?" Leclerc lost his patience and ordered the 13 men shot in the back of the head, despite protests from a French lieutenant, who instead executed the 12 men by firing squad. The 12 men died shouting 'Vive La France!' The 13th man was rumoured to have been the son of a General friend of Leclerc, and so was spared. Ironically, when Leclerc died in a air crash in the 1950s, there were 13 men on board. After the war Waffen-SS veterans built a memorial for their French comrades, and each year there is still a memorial service for them, although unfortuantely this year the politically correct German government is trying to restrict it.

K

Ahhh....to be young and to equate sexual favors with love. I don't know that it was always so romantic. Sometimes it was, certainly. At other times it was "giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war" which may be the equivalent of treason. I'm sure that you are aware that the United States Constitution, Article III, Section 3 defines treason thus:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

I understand that these were not American women but the idea is pretty much the same and many were perhaps lucky to escape with the shame and humiliation that they suffered as opposed to being shot. It also was likely a lot better than the fate that German women suffered at the hands of Soviet soldiers.

As for French soldiers taking up arms in a German uniform, they made a poor choice. But they were traitors to France nevertheless. At least they were shot and did not have to suffer the indignity of being hanged like Keitel, Jodl, et al.


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[Tom Houlihan]

Originally Posted by Jim O

As for French soldiers taking up arms in a German uniform, they made a poor choice. But they were traitors to France nevertheless.

Let me get out my pot stirrer...

Were they actually traitors? Was not Vichy France an ally of Germany?

[Helmut Von Moltke]

French volunteers were an complicated issue. At that time the Vichy government was recognized as legtitimate by many, including the USA, since they negotiated with Vichy in the 1942 Morrocan campaign. The Vichy government in 1941 officially sanctioned and called for a legion of French volunteers to fight on the Eastern front. For example, after the war French volunteers of the Waffen-SS were released and were full citizens.

K

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Tom Houlihan

Let me get out my pot stirrer...

Were they actually traitors? Was not Vichy France an ally of Germany?

This is a complicated issue and I anticipated that someone would make this point. Here's my answer:

The Vichy government was really no more legitimate than any of the Nazi installed governments. They may have had a tad more independence but not much. To describe them as "allies" is also overstating what they were as they did not contribute troops in French uniform to any war effort. They were collaborators with a foreign occupying force even during the period of time when their part of France was technically not occupied. This complicity has been decided again and again in French courts to have been a crime, from Marshal Pétain on down. After Operation Torch in November 1942 any idea of an "independent" France (a farce from the very start) was ended when the entire country was occupied. By then the Vichy government could best have been described as a "puppet".

So...I still hold these men were traitors to France and while they paid the ultimate price, it was not out of line for the crime of "treason during time of war".

Originally Posted by Helmut Von Moltke

French volunteers were an complicated issue. At that time the Vichy government was recognized as legtitimate by many, including the USA, since they negotiated with Vichy in the 1942 Morrocan campaign. The Vichy government in 1941 officially sanctioned and called for a legion of French volunteers to fight on the Eastern front. For example, after the war French volunteers of the Waffen-SS were released and were full citizens.

Again, it is a complicated issue. The US even maintained diplomatic relations with Vichy during those years. Negotiating with her to secure her cooperation in Operation Torch (there were perhaps 60,000 troops in Morocco still taking orders from Vichy at that time) made political and military sense.

What later became of French volunteers who fought only on the Eastern Front is a bit different than is the fate of those captured taking up arms in France itself. Also a complicated issue and at some point, when the bullets stop flying people want the enmity and killing to stop and forgiveness and healing to begin.