Under construction

[Geek44]

I built two Elefants in my day...one 1/72 and one 1/35. I was a kid when I built both and I forget who's they were. I suspect the 1/35 one was Italeri perhaps? I'm an old Tamiya builder from way back. Don't get me wrong because I think they do excellent kits...even the old ones we've all built multiple times. They're for a different market than Dragon I think. Dragon kits are excellent for other reasons and their parts count is still higher, even discounting the indy track links...some Tamiya kits have them now too. Having said that...a large number of parts doesn't necessarily make for a great kit. Dragon kits seem way more 'versatile' in that they often feature workable suspension and similar features that make inclusion in dioramas a little easier. They're also multi-media in a lot of cases and that appeals to me. I also LOVE their 'Three-In-One' kits that allow you two build one of three versions of the subject without having to look for and buy aftermarket stuff. The best part in my view is that Dragon kits also beef up one's spares box quite considerably...something I believe Dragon has done intentionally (from reading) and that's a good thing. They've come a long way since their first (pretty bad actually) aircraft kits from the early '90s.

[Lemm]

I have not done one of their 3 in 1 kits as yet but I am keen to do so. I bought Dragons first Nashorn back in the 90's and what a mess that was. I couldnt get the damn thing together no matter how hard I tried. I guess I never really got over that but I did learn much later on that I was not the only one and I believe their newer Nashorn is worth building. Yes I too like the extra bits and pieces for the box...dont get that with Tamiya. Too be honest I have three kits waiting to be built (I am not one of those who buy kits all time) and they are all Dragon. I do like their figures also and who else has given the likes of me plenty of German figures to play with.....keep em coming I say.

[McCoy]

Given the choice between Dragon n' Tamiya with the same subject my choice is Dragon hands down. I just love Dragon's kits n' the one (6268 Panther G Late Smart kit) I'm doin' right now sure is a little gem n' has to be one of the best kits out there. Considerin' that it also is a Smart kit with a lot of thoughts brought in to the kit in order to cut down the need for PE, it's a really joy to build. Then on the other end of the scale there's Dragons Premium Edition kit's that really is multimedia kits with turned aluminium barrels n' massive amounts of PE, chains, shackles n' other stuff in metall. There the meaning is that you buy a kit n' have all you need right in the box so you don't have to shop around for aftermarket PE n' stuff. There's one problem though with most Dragon's kits n' that's that it's allmost impossible to get it all back in the box after you've looked at all the sprues n' then there's the bad instructions that leaves a lot to wish for.

Tamiya on the other hand is shake n' bake, you can't find any kits that's more easy to build than Tamiya's n' then can be really fun but I personally find 'em lackin' in some areas when it comes to the details plus the fact that I prefer indytracks (most of the time). But there's no one, absolutely no one who beats Tamiya when it comes to the build instructions.

[Lemm]

Food for thought McCoy thats for sure. Funny thing I also have that Panther Smart Kit which I bought on ebay. After reading your rave about it I will do it next. My problem is I have never before got any of the new age Dragon kits so I guess I am a bit behind the eight ball that way. Just of interest has anybody done Dragon's later Nashorn? I would be interested to read your comments.

Phil

[Whiterook]

I have one Dragon in my stash now, but I'm reserving it until later, when I'm more comfortable with a few kits built under my belt. It's all such a learning curve for me right now, that an easier kit holds a lot of appeal for me. Nick...where would you put a Roden kit in relation to Tamiya on the easier side, and Dragon on the more challenging?

[Geek44]

It's difficult to compare Roden to either really. In some respects, Roden are very basic kits in that they don't have very 'positive' parts placement...ie, no pins, tabs or slots. The parts will fit, even fit very well but with no guide pins it's just harder to get the fit you want. I've found sink marks in Roden parts but that's easily fixed usually. I may be wrong WR but I think you might be getting at your capability. I'd say I guy like yourself with all of your 'other' skills would be more than capable to tackle a Dragon kit. You're methodical and patient. They take some time though and I think I could bash out two Tamiya kits in the time it takes to do one Dragon kit...but that's just me and I'm slow. Armour for me is mostly a 'dabble' and the kits seem like an aftermarket paradise. That's why I like the higher end Dragon kits and would even add aftermarket stuff to those if I thought I could. Not everybody likes aftermarket stuff but I really do. Keep in mind also that some of the newer 'high-end' Tamiya stuff comes with Eduard PE included...there's a Panzer IV with turret armour and skirts in brass and a Panzer III as well.
All three manufacturers make kits that can be built into very good models...Dragon is labour intensive because of parts count and lousy instructions, Tamiya are as McCoy stated 'shake and make' kits...always reliable ( I love their aircraft kits) and build up into very good representations of what they depict in a simple and straightforward way and Roden just take work to get a good model. The beauty of Roden is that they model unusual or less popular subjects (choice of WW1 models are a pretty new thing). Here's a good illustration of the difference between Tamiya and Dragon. The lower hulls of all the Tamiya tanks I've built (including the Panther you did) have the axles for the road wheels moulded integrally onto the lower hull. Each bogie on my Dragon Pz. IV (3-in-1 kit) is six parts and is moveable when assembled. The main weapon on your Panther was two halves. The main weapon on my Pz. IV was two halves but the join is concealed by the recoil sleeve (for want of the proper term) or there was an aluminium barrel included. I used the styrene barrel for the simple reason that it's hollow down its entire length and has rifling. Tha aluminium one is only hollow for maybe five millimetres and has no rifling. Slide moulds have revolutionized the hobby and Dragon do tons of it. I guess it comes down to preference. Tamiya also do many more vehicles than Dragon (so far) so that may influence too.
Peace.

[Geek44]

Just for interest's sake Lemm, I took these with you in mind last night. This is my PE and resin detail set for a 1/35 Elefant. It's by 'Voyager Model' (China) and looks pretty good. It comes with the usual fenders, storage box and tool clamps but also includes tow-cable eyes and cable, resin bolts for those distictive 'heads' on the hull sides. It even comes with a (pretty crappy) zimmerit tool.

Voyager ElefantA.jpg

Zimmerit ToolA.jpg

Friul ATL23 Elefant.jpg

[MAGNA]

I agree with McCoy and Geek about the various manufacturers. I have not had experience with 1/72nd scale Tamiya (planes) but I have had Roden and Dragon experience in that scale. The same as mentioned in earlier posts applies. Roden tend to supply AFV kits that are not easily available but they are a bit 'loose' on where everything has to go. Just a matter of finding the right photo's to help. With the Dragon kits you need even more photo's and each sequence of instructions has to be nutted out beforehand, otherwise you end up with bits stuck down and something else needing to go there first - the instructions are not exactly brilliant. The PE bits are a total waste on 1/72nd AFV kits but I can see they would really enhance 1/35th.

Tamiya in 1/35th is, in a word, easy. You would have to have an IQ two points lower than a tree not to be able to follow them.

Here's the inevitable next question - Amhar and Trumpeter. Good stuff ?

[McCoy]

I'm not at all familiar with Amhar but Trumpeter have kits belongin' to both ends of the scale with some absolute trainwrecks n' some perfect kits. Their KV-1's is the best out there so far. They've also some great a/c's in 1:32.

[Whiterook]

Originally Posted by Geek44

It's difficult to compare Roden to either really. In some respects, Roden are very basic kits in that they don't have very 'positive' parts placement...ie, no pins, tabs or slots. The parts will fit, even fit very well but with no guide pins it's just harder to get the fit you want. I've found sink marks in Roden parts but that's easily fixed usually. I may be wrong WR but I think you might be getting at your capability. I'd say I guy like yourself with all of your 'other' skills would be more than capable to tackle a Dragon kit. You're methodical and patient. They take some time though and I think I could bash out two Tamiya kits in the time it takes to do one Dragon kit...but that's just me and I'm slow. Armour for me is mostly a 'dabble' and the kits seem like an aftermarket paradise. That's why I like the higher end Dragon kits and would even add aftermarket stuff to those if I thought I could. Not everybody likes aftermarket stuff but I really do. Keep in mind also that some of the newer 'high-end' Tamiya stuff comes with Eduard PE included...there's a Panzer IV with turret armour and skirts in brass and a Panzer III as well.
All three manufacturers make kits that can be built into very good models...Dragon is labour intensive because of parts count and lousy instructions, Tamiya are as McCoy stated 'shake and make' kits...always reliable ( I love their aircraft kits) and build up into very good representations of what they depict in a simple and straightforward way and Roden just take work to get a good model. The beauty of Roden is that they model unusual or less popular subjects (choice of WW1 models are a pretty new thing). Here's a good illustration of the difference between Tamiya and Dragon. The lower hulls of all the Tamiya tanks I've built (including the Panther you did) have the axles for the road wheels moulded integrally onto the lower hull. Each bogie on my Dragon Pz. IV (3-in-1 kit) is six parts and is moveable when assembled. The main weapon on your Panther was two halves. The main weapon on my Pz. IV was two halves but the join is concealed by the recoil sleeve (for want of the proper term) or there was an aluminium barrel included. I used the styrene barrel for the simple reason that it's hollow down its entire length and has rifling. Tha aluminium one is only hollow for maybe five millimetres and has no rifling. Slide moulds have revolutionized the hobby and Dragon do tons of it. I guess it comes down to preference. Tamiya also do many more vehicles than Dragon (so far) so that may influence too.
Peace.

Thanks for the great explaination, very well put my friend! I totally agree with Roden's lack of location holes and pins, and what is there are a bit sloppy on the Gotha biplane...takes a little mre time and work to put everything where it needs to fit proper. Their instructions weren't the best, but probably not the worst either.

I really am looking forward to the Dragon kit...and I appreciate the kind words of encouragement!!! I am proving more confident with each kit...the Dragon kit is so sweet a rig that I just want to make sure I have a tad more experience before I tackle her, but if I started it tomorrow, I feel fairly confident I could manage. The building isn't so much the issue as doing a decent job with the finish...I want it to be a Winter scene, so it will be whitewashed. I definitely want to try a whitewash on a test model or two first!