Ever Dream the What-if Dream in You Gaming?

[Whiterook]

So here's a good one for 'ya!

Have you ever dreamed the What-if dream in any of your gaming?
Read below for what I'm gettin' at....

I was watching a portion of Anatomy of an Abrams Tank on the Military Channel, and they took me down a road (no pun intended) that got the hamster wheel in my cranium spinnin': They showed black and white footage of the classic old M4A1 Sherman in WWII, and talked of how, from what it lacked in quality, it gained in quanity (a much used analogy). They then showed the after war progression from the WWII Sherman to the M60 Patton (they skipped the M48 Patton, but I nitpick), mentioning it was the last of the US armor based upon World War II technology. I found that interesting. Then they showed the Abrams, and explained (from a Tanker who served in the first Gulf War, and had field experience with both the M60 and Abrams) how it was like jumping from behind a Pinto to a Frerarri (or similar). Again, interesting indeed. This is where the hamster wheel started spinning out of control!

Thought I:

"Hmmmmmmmmmmm, what I would give to have even just one Abrams and Stat Card for my Axis & Allies Miniatures game system, to put up against King Tigers, Tiger I's, or even a seemingly overwhelming wall of Panthers; and how would the battle have fared???

See where I'm going with this?"

I remember a movie years ago, based on a book I believe titled "Thin Air", of a modern day carrier that goes through a vortex in Space/Time and emerges back in WWII around Pearl Harbor...do I remember that right?...and jets taking on WWII aircraft. Well, the movie hasn't stuck with me that much, but the concept nestled in there somewhere (next to all those Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition of the 70's memories.....and Cheryl, Sue, and Amy from the Simplex Minutemen **sigh**). What If??????

[McCoy]

What if the wheels turnin' but the hamster's dead?

Seriously it's an interestin' thought but in the end it comes down to what type of battlefield we're talkin' 'bout here. The old tanks would have serious trouble to hit an modern tank in a battle in a large open field as it would constantly be movin' at high speed n' pickin' out the older tanks one by one at a great distance without slowin' down. Of course a hit from a KwK43 L/71 or a KwK42 L/70 would mean serious trouble at close range for an modern tank dependin' on where it hits. Even a Panzerfasut would be a threat to any modern tank even if it probably wouldn't take it out except from the rear.

The main factor for an modern tank ain't armour but it's speed/mobility n' firepower (computerized optics n' gun + stabilizator).

[Double Deuce]

I made the jump from M48A5's through the 60 series to the M1A1. The jump in technology through each version was extraordinary. Even the changes from the M60A1 to A3 was a pretty good jump, not in an automotive sense but in fire control department. Truthfully, I miss my A3 some nights.

[Whiterook]

I guess I'm thinking from a purely gaming standpoint on this one. You see, in Axis & Allies Miniatures, a King Tiger played in a game can be near undefeatable. In this game system, the object of most scenarios is to take the objective hex. Taking the objective means, being the only unit adjacent to it by the end of Turn 7. A King Tiger can literally park adjacent to the objective hex, and be unmoveable, and if you don't dislodge it from it's position (either by killing it or making it withdraw), you can effectively bring the game to a loss or draw, depending on point costs of units left by the end of Turn 10. There are certainly ways to counter this, but the King Tiger is a deadly beast in the hands of an experienced player. You see, speed in this system (and many gaming systems) is not necesarily a factor, in terms of which you speak. Firepower *could* be, but maybe not so much, considering chance of the die.

So, one Abrams would be an interesting foe...or not. This is where the gaming world varies differently from the actual facts world. It doesn't diminish the game, or dilute it's accuracy at all.....gaming by it's vary nature represnts varying degrees of accuracy and detail, and degrees to which chance plays a significant roll.

[50th]

Hey, that was a cool movie, I saw it too. Trying to remember the name of it, its on my tongue but won't come out. I know what you mean by those tiger II's and wall of panthers. I felt the wrath of a Tiger 1, panther, and jagdpanther in my last game. Quick War

I am going to try to balance the game by saying that no matter how close the combat values are, the allies get an extra Sherman or two, or a M-7 Priest. I will try this with my next game. I'll let you know how it worked, but I won't be playing until Tuesday.

[TRDG]

Yes, but within reason Emery, like what if the Tiger and Panther was available a lot earlier and in quantities is about it. One thing I have thought about is what if the German Eastern front divisions were at Normandy instead of what there was in reality..... LOL

Cheers, a good "what if" topic I am working on for that forum.

Tom

No Abrams in my WW II armies, sorry!!

[Whiterook]

Very interesting lads!!!

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Hey WR, i remember that movie too, lol. Do you also remember that old episode of the "Twilight Zone" where the Sherman crew that was out on maneuvers ended up hitting a time warp and ending up at the Battle of the Little Bighorn? They couldnt use their Tank because it broke down and was out of position over a ridge, but they went into the battle and died fighting beside Custer and his boys.

[PanzerBob]

What if's are a favourite topic of mine, Steel Panthers WWII and MBT could allow such battle to occur without too much Modding. Depending on the scenario you have in mind, beside the other threats mentioned, my concern would be what does one do once all your lovely modern AP ammo is exhausted!!

I think a real test would be fielding Company sized unit with some support against several (sw)PzAbt. with support.

No Panzer/Tank is designed to operate in a vaccum.

Bob out

[Whiterook]

Originally Posted by KG_Panzerschreck

Hey WR, i remember that movie too, lol. Do you also remember that old episode of the "Twilight Zone" where the Sherman crew that was out on maneuvers ended up hitting a time warp and ending up at the Battle of the Little Bighorn? They couldnt use their Tank because it broke down and was out of position over a ridge, but they went into the battle and died fighting beside Custer and his boys.

That was an awesome episode! I only saw it a couple times, as for some reason they don't show that one much on the rare occasions the show is on (which seems to be New Years Day marathon fodder now). Imagine if that tank was in battle readiness?