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#1 User is offline   Tom Houlihan 

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Posted October 06, 2008 - 12:02 AM

I'm a wee bit short on time, but I just read this over on a Yahoo Group I belong to. I think anyone, and I mean anyone, who was thinking of seeing the vaunted Mr. Lee's new movie should think again. I don't think any of us should support this hypocrite in any way, shape, or form:

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Italian partisans to protest Spike Lee's World War II film
6 hours ago

ROME (AFP) — Italian veteran partisans offended by US director Spike Lee's World War II film "Miracle at St. Anna" planned a protest Wednesday at an advance screening in central Italy, media reports said.

They plan to stage a sit-in in Viareggio, a town on the Tuscan coast near the village of Stazzema, where retreating German soldiers massacred 560 civilians in 1944, the reports said.

The film, which is set for general release in Italy on Friday, shows a member of the resistance collaborating with the Nazis and failing to warn the villagers of the Germans' advance.

A dozen of the anti-Fascist partisans who were present during the massacre and about 50 survivors contest this version, according to the Italian daily La Stampa.

"It is an erroneous version," said writer Giorgio Bocca, a veteran partisan, wrote in an editorial in Wednesday's La Repubblica, a left-leaning daily.

At a press screening on Tuesday, Lee said he was "not apologising" and that he had "not invented anything" in the film version of a book of the same name by James McBride which also highlights the role of black American soldiers in the war.

"This film is no clear picture of what happened. It is our interpretation, and I stand behind it," Lee said, suggesting to Italians that there was "a lot about your history you have yet to come to grips with."

McBride was more contrite, saying: "I am very sorry if I have offended the partisans. I have enormous respect for them. As a black American, I understand what it's like for someone to tell your history, and they are not you."

He added: "Unfortunately, the history of World War II here in Italy is ours as well, and this was the best I could do," stressing: "It is, after all, a work of fiction."

Organisers of the Rome Film Festival opening on October 22 told a news conference on Wednesday that they had requested a copy of the film but were told it was promised for last month's Toronto event.

From:
AFP: Italian partisans to protest Spike Lee's World War II film


Spike Lee vs. the Italian Resistance

By Jeff Israely Wednesday, Oct. 01, 2008

When it comes to history, Spike Lee isn't one to duck a fight. Last spring the New York filmmaker set off a nasty public showdown with Clint Eastwood, whom he criticized for not depicting African-American soldiers in his recent World War II films about Iwo Jima.

But now Lee finds himself defending the historical accuracy of his own World War II movie, Miracle at St. Anna, and this time he is up against real-life fighters who may be even tougher than Dirty Harry. Surviving members of Italy's underground anti-Nazi resistance movement are angry over the film, a fictionalized account of the travails of the 92nd Infantry Division — the black GIs known as Buffalo Soldiers — as they helped liberate Italy. The film includes a portrayal of the Nazis' infamous 1944 slaughter of some 560 Italian civilians in the Tuscan town of Sant'Anna di Stazzema.

In Lee's version, that massacre is depicted as a response to the actions of the Italian resistance fighters and shows one partisan betraying the town in a secret meeting with the Nazis.

But in a 2005 ruling, an Italian military tribunal determined that the massacre was a premeditated plan by the Germans and was in no way provoked by the partisans. Moreno Costa, 82, who fought alongside the African-American unit, was among the former resistance fighters who waged that legal battle, and he met Lee last year before filming began. "He talked about commemorating the Buffalo troops, but he didn't say anything about this betrayal," said Costa, reached by phone in his hometown of Pietrasanta, some six miles from St. Anna. "We are indignant about this. I don't understand why he had to open all this up again."

Giovanni Cipollini, who heads Pietrasanta's local pro-resistance association, said he had offered to put Lee in touch with partisans who were present, but that the director refused. "This is very delicate," he says. "When a famous director makes a major movie about a chapter in history, people will believe that his version is the truth." Cipollini led a group distributing flyers of protest at Wednesday's screening in Viareggio, near the setting of the film.

Lee has said he wanted to make this film, based on a novel by James McBride, to give long-overdue attention to the role of African-American soldiers in World War II. While at work on it, Lee took a swipe at Eastwood over the absence of black soldiers in his historical epics Flags of Our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima. The Californian director fired back: "A guy like that should shut his face," to which Lee replied, "The man is not my father, and we're not on a plantation either."

Characteristically, Lee has not backed down on the European front either. In a press conference after Monday's screening of his film in Rome, his response to the hurt feelings of the Italian resistance was firm. "I am not apologizing for anything," he said. "I think these questions are evidence that there is still a lot about your history during the war that [Italians] have got to come to grips with." He was also quoted in the Italian press as saying there were plenty of cases of resistance fighters fleeing from combat.

Costa, who was 18 years old when he fought in 1944 in the battles around St. Anna, says he will not see the film, especially in light of Lee's reply to the historical questions. "Spike Lee can make whatever film he wants," he says. "I don't know why he wanted to insert that [betrayal] scene. Now he doesn't want to apologize, and attacks us? He could have just kept quiet."

For his part, McBride, who also wrote the screenplay, took a more conciliatory approach at Monday's press conference. "I am very sorry if I have offended the partisans. I have enormous respect for them," he said. "As a black American, we understand what it's like for someone to tell your history, and they are not you. But unfortunately, the history of World War II here in Italy is ours as well, and this was the best I could do." In the words of the screenwriter and the director, one can see the difference between a peacemaker and a warrior.

From:
Spike Lee vs. the Italian Resistance - TIME


He berates Eastwood for alleged historical inaccuracies, then does this after the partisans help him? What a dirtbag.
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#2 User is offline   Blacksheep 214 

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Posted October 06, 2008 - 12:25 AM

I have worked with Hollywood on five military projects and got into a actual argument with Michael Bay the director of PH about getting it right...he chose the drama route..

Bottom line: Its what the director wants. And Money...

Spike is no different. But I thought it was a good movie overall....its entertainment. Nothing more. Although Directors do have a responsibility to tell history correct!!!!
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#3 User is offline   Tom Houlihan 

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Posted October 06, 2008 - 12:28 AM

I understand the entertainment aspect.

What gets me is that he slammed C.E. over not having any blacks in his film, though they weren't part of the story.

Then he turns around and modifies another factual event to suit his own needs.
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#4 User is offline   gi-rene 

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Posted October 06, 2008 - 01:21 AM

Tom Houlihan said:

I understand the entertainment aspect.

What gets me is that he slammed C.E. over not having any blacks in his film, though they weren't part of the story.

Then he turns around and modifies another factual event to suit his own needs.

I swear I saw some in the Japanese attack on the airfields near the end. IIRC historically the AA support troops were there and gave an excellent accounting of themselves.

Sadly I've heard many vet accounts of a few of the AA units in the ETO and this is coming from mostly (now) non-racists (times were obviously different no matter where and how you were raised), but all I will say is that some of the ones I talked to had the 100th/442d in a much higher opinion then the 92d ID. One mainly because he was an MP and said the Nisei were well behaved on pass while the 92d guys were the same as the rest of the Army and caused all kinds of problems.

I think their battle record is pretty good and the story should be told from a neutral angle... But ever since becoming a history buff I've learned how bad Hollywood screws up history, so I expect it.
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#5 User is offline   Tom Houlihan 

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Posted October 06, 2008 - 02:05 AM

BB, I know there were black Marines on the island. Where specifically, I don't know. I'd have to go digging. However, having read the book the movie was based on, I know that they were not part of the focus of the story. That's where I first had an issue with Lee. He felt that the movie should have been re-written to include black Marines in it, even though they weren't in the original story!

Then, when he modifies things, regardless of accuracy, it's apparently alright. Someone that won't re-write history, or an author's material is bad. When he blithely does it, it's supposed to be an improvement, damn the opinions of those who were actually THERE!
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#6 User is offline   Geek44 

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Posted October 06, 2008 - 06:34 AM

I've never seen a movie about WW2 that was entirely factual or historically accurate. It is a shame...I don't see why directors always have to 'know best'. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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#7 User is offline   cyberia 

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Posted October 09, 2008 - 09:51 PM

All this crap over what soldiers were what color in a movie.

The real guys in the real deal all bled red.

When did that stop being what mattered?
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#8 User is offline   gi-rene 

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Posted October 09, 2008 - 10:12 PM

cyberia said:

All this crap over what soldiers were what color in a movie.

The real guys in the real deal all bled red.

When did that stop being what mattered?

Paul you're preaching to the choir here. None of us made the accusations and from the looks of it we're providing evidence to the contrary. More interesting is the testimony of 62 "veterans" (partisan and civilian) vs an author and a filmmaker. One of whom apologized, the other who refuses to.
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#9 User is offline   Blacksheep 214 

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Posted October 09, 2008 - 11:15 PM

LOL
I watched Flags and I saw some dark green Marines in the crowd on the deck of the troop transport when they got the brief from the Officers...

Tough shit Spike!!

Spike should Join the MC and see how it really is....Light green or Dark green...we are all US Marine green....

SF
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#10 User is offline   cyberia 

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Posted October 10, 2008 - 11:36 PM

Blacksheep 214 said:

LOL
I watched Flags and I saw some dark green Marines in the crowd on the deck of the troop transport when they got the brief from the Officers...

Tough shit Spike!!

Spike should Join the MC and see how it really is....Light green or Dark green...we are all US Marine green....

SF
Brad


That's my point. When someone in this day and age watches a movie about men fighting and dying together, and can only count how many are what color, that's a racist agenda.

I doubt the thought even occurred to any man who was there and watched the movie. Why, because men of that caliber have risen above such things.

As Brad said, Marine green. That was their color.
Nostradamus predicted this.

#11 User is offline   gi-rene 

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Posted October 11, 2008 - 10:17 AM

cyberia said:

That's my point. When someone in this day and age watches a movie about men fighting and dying together, and can only count how many are what color, that's a racist agenda.

I doubt the thought even occurred to any man who was there and watched the movie. Why, because men of that caliber have risen above such things.

As Brad said, Marine green. That was their color.

Supposedly a general was once asked about racism in the Marine Corps his response was something like, "We have light green Marines, we have dark green Marines, we even have bumpy (female) Marines, but they're all MARINES!"

Maybe its just one of those gets around type sea stories, but its a good one.
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#12 User is offline   cyberia 

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Posted October 11, 2008 - 11:19 AM

gi-rene said:

cyberia said:

That's my point. When someone in this day and age watches a movie about men fighting and dying together, and can only count how many are what color, that's a racist agenda.

I doubt the thought even occurred to any man who was there and watched the movie. Why, because men of that caliber have risen above such things.

As Brad said, Marine green. That was their color.

Supposedly a general was once asked about racism in the Marine Corps his response was something like, "We have light green Marines, we have dark green Marines, we even have bumpy (female) Marines, but they're all MARINES!"

Maybe its just one of those gets around type sea stories, but its a good one.


Very good one, Rich. Email it to Spike.
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#13 User is offline   Blacksheep 214 

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Posted October 11, 2008 - 11:14 PM

Oorah!

In the case of Miracle at St.Anna, the army doggies were all Army Green!!! LOL..


Altough I was not crying when that backwards army captain got it towards the end!! LOL

SF
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#14 User is offline   outrider 

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Posted October 25, 2008 - 10:07 PM

I haven't seen Lee's film and I think that he took the swaps at Eastwood just to gain publicity for his film, which is BS. I've always respected Spike Lee as a talented filmaker, but there's a right way and a wrong way to go about things. Trying to tell a delicate story like Flags of our Fathers, making two movies at the same time instead of just kicking back at 76 years old... Clint deserves a lot of accolades just for the attempt, let alone making two excellent films. I've been in this discussion before on another forum and it prompted me to do some checking. The 5th Marine Pioneer Battalion was an all black unit on Iwo Jima who were combat trained but were mostly given the task of unloading supplies. They had to repel a fierce Japanese assault on Feb. 25-26 during the battle. My source for this is the March 2006 issue of WW2 magazine if anyone is interested. I remember reading this and looked it up.
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#15 User is offline   Blacksheep 214 

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Posted October 25, 2008 - 11:20 PM

Outrider,

OUTSTANDING research on those Marines from 5th Pioneer. Those Devil dogs would be proud that they are appreciated in 2008 just by normal peeps researching them!!!

Spike would do good to make his movies and show life as it really was....without having to overcompensate for the race stuff.. I grew up in Hawaii...We are supposed to be the melting pot of the pacific. We dont give a rats okole (Hawaiian for ass) what damn color you are. I had so much fun meeting people from all over the world in the Marines. I wish most of the planet could take lessons from Hawaii. Esp those knuckleheads in the middle east....


Semper Fi
Brad
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#16 User is offline   outrider 

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Posted October 26, 2008 - 11:56 AM

Thanks. It's been bugging me since Spike started running his mouth about Flags and Letters and there is just no rhyme or reason to it. I remembered reading this and decided to look it up. Maybe I sohould contact Spike. If he did his research, then maybe he'd shut up...never mind, he wouldn't.
"Only the dead have seen the end of war"

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