[McCoy]

Well, I don't have any pics to post at the moment but where's this beauty? I'd thought that cyberia would have started a 251 thread allready. I'll be back with some pics later on.

This post has been edited by McCoy: October 01, 2009 - 02:23 PM

[Jim O]

I'm sure that he will if don't first...

[cyberia]

McCoy said:

Well, I don't have any pics to post at the moment but where's this beauty? I'd thought that cyberia would have started a 251 thread allready. I'll be back with some pics later on.

Your the third person to ask! Go for it guys. Then we can start exploring all the variants.
Love all the variants in that series!

[cyberia]

Whoa, Deja Vu!




A pair of SdKfz. 250/1's belonging to the 2nd Kompanie of the Kradshutzen (motorcycle) Bataillon of the GrossDeutschland Div., out ahead of the column somewhere in Russia.



Sometimes lighter is better. An SdKfz. 250/5 attached to the 7th Panzer Div. crosses a small bridge with ease while a Pz. IV Ausf. E waits to be unstuck from a shallow stream.



A 250/3 of the 10th Pz. Div. on sentry duty at an airfield. Date and location unknown.



The SdKfz. 250 APC was a smaller version of the SdKfz. 251 and as this photograph illustrates, space was at a premium.

[cyberia]

The SdKfz. 251/16 was the flamethrower version of the APC.






Equipped with two 14mm hand operated flamethrowers, flames could be projected over a distance of 60 yards.



Crews of the SdKfz. 251/16 were "required" to wear protective clothing when in action, but due to the impracticality of donning such cumbersome gear in the heat of battle, this rule was rarely followed.

[cyberia]

My favorites in the 250 class...



The SdKfz. 250/10 with a mounted 37mm PaK gun, minus the protective shield



The SdKfz. 250/11 sporting the 28/20mm s.Pzb tapered bore antitank gun

[PanzerBob]

More is always good Jah........

SdKfz 251/! Ausf D




SdKfz251/7 Pioneer Halftrack with small bridge. 12th SS Hitler Youth Div

[lufttiger]

Wow where's that color one from??

[PanzerBob]

lufttiger said:

Wow where's that color one from??

Believe it or not, those are Repro 251's with reinactors, I loved what the photographer did with the shot. Attached is another he did the same with.

[cyberia]

General der Panzertruppen Heinz Guderian at the office


Both the 250 and 251 type German APC had commanders versions each with the designation /3. These Funkwagens were packed with radio equipment and map racks and gave field commanders a chance to stay close to the action.

Two noteworthy commanders who made full use of these vehicles were Guderian and Rommel.



Guderian leans out from his SaKfz.251/3 to confer with Generalmajor Kuntzen of the 8th Pz. Div.
This photograph was taken on the Western Front 1940



Rommel, at speed in his SdKfz. 250/3 in the Western Desert
Rommel's vehicle was named Greif (Griffon) and was famous within the Afrikakorps

[Pirate-Drakk]

cyberia said:

General der Panzertruppen Heinz Guderian at the office


Both the 250 and 251 type German APC had commanders versions each with the designation /3. These Funkwagens were packed with radio equipment and map racks and gave field commanders a chance to stay close to the action.

Two noteworthy commanders who made full use of these vehicles were Guderian and Rommel.

The best part of this shot is the Enigma Machine in the lower left corner which was used for coding "uncrackable" messages to/from high command.

Compare it with this pic from the wiki.

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•  Enigma.jpg (88.59K)
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[cyberia]

From the side of his SdKfz. 250 command vehicle in Russia duirng the summer of 1943, Major Friedrich Quentin of the 6th Pz. Div. looks over a situation map

[Pirate-Drakk]

cyberia said:

The SdKfz. 251/16 was the flamethrower version of the APC.






Equipped with two 14mm hand operated flamethrowers, flames could be projected over a distance of 60 yards.



Crews of the SdKfz. 251/16 were "required" to wear protective clothing when in action, but due to the impracticality of donning such cumbersome gear in the heat of battle, this rule was rarely followed.

I have a pyromaniacal love for ALL flame throwers of all types, but this is my favorite of all time! Dangerous as hell for the crew, but also for the enemy. I've read some accounts of these vehicles being used in the woods and around buildings. They would often operate in groups of 4 and fry everything in site. Great for flushing out the hidden enemy.


Here's a cool link on the tactics used for these Flammers.
Lone Sentry: Tactics of German SdKfz 251 Personnel Carriers Mounting Flame Throwers (Intelligence Bulletin, Nov. 1944)

"The official German Army directive which is paraphrased below discusses the tactics of the armored half-track flame-thrower vehicle (see fig. 21). This is the medium personnel carrier used in Panzer Grenadier units, fitted with two large flame throwers and one small flame thrower, in addition to the regular machine-gun mounts at the front and rear.

A large flame thrower is mounted in a V-shaped shield on each side of the vehicle. The small flame thrower on the back of the vehicle is simply the cartridge ignition projector used in the small portable flame thrower; this projector is attached to one end of a 33-foot length of hose, which connects it to the propulsion unit and fuel tank. Tanks situated next to the side armor plates, in the interior of the vehicle, carry 154 gallons of flame-thrower fuel. A small gasoline engine and a pump, used to propel the fuel, are situated in the center of the interior.

The effective range of the large flame throwers is about 40 yards, whereas that of the small equipment is unlikely to exceed 30 yards. The fuel carried is sufficient for about 80 bursts, each lasting from 1 to 2 seconds.

1. The medium armored flame-thrower vehicle is a close combat weapon of the Panzer Grenadiers. It is used in the offensive when the other weapons used from the vehicle do not promise to be sufficiently effective.

2. In addition to employing its machine guns against personnel at ranges of as much as 440 yards, the vehicle may direct flame against personnel and static targets at ranges of as much as 40 yards. If the flame does not destroy hostile troops, it should at least force them to leave their cover. Attacks with flame are particularly effective in mopping up ground quickly, in liquidating hostile soldiers who put in a sudden appearance near the vehicle, and in destroying hostile personnel in hasty permanent field fortifications.

[Armored Half-track Flame-thrower Vehicle]
Figure 21. Armored Half-track Flame-thrower Vehicle.

3. These flame-thrower vehicles normally are employed by whole platoons, and always in close cooperation with mounted Panzer Grenadier units in the attack.

4. For combat in fortified areas, attacks on permanent fortifications, and so on, the vehicles may be employed singly, under the command of mounted Panzer Grenadier platoons. When the latter dismount, the flame-thrower vehicles will be left behind with the armored personnel carriers.

5. It is forbidden to use these vehicles like infantry tanks or assault guns, as "point" vehicles on the march or in action, for protective duty, or as independent patrol vehicles.

6. In the pursuit, the platoon will support local and prepared counterattacks by mounted Panzer Grenadiers.

7. Every effort must be made to employ the platoon as a whole, for greater effectiveness.

TACTICS

1. Preparations for the attack (terrain estimate, tactical reconnaissance. protective duties, camouflage. and so on) follow the same principles as are observed by tanks and Panzer Grenadiers.

2. In the attack the flame-thrower vehicles move in extended order behind the mounted Panzer Grenadier units. The action normally is opened by machine-gun fire. Covered by the fire of other weapons, as well as by the weapons in the personnel carriers themselves, the flame-thrower platoon will break into the hostile position.

3. If the opposition remains under cover, it will be burnt out. Bursts of fire from the flame throwers should be projected only against those targets which definitely are within range. To fire flame bursts indiscriminately, before reaching the opposition, merely wastes fuel and obscures vision.

4. It is important to direct the flame against the bottom of the target first and then work up, so that hostile personnel who may have close-range antitank weapons in readiness will be destroyed.

5. The type of target and the course of attack will determine whether fire is to be opened while on the move or at the halt.

6. Trenches will be crossed and engaged from the flank. Tree tops, roofs, and raised platforms may be set afire if the presence of hostile soldiers is suspected.

7. If a large conflagration is desired, the target first will be sprayed with oil and then ignited by a burst of fire. This is especially effective when attacking dugouts, trenches, entrances to pillboxes, and — of course — wooden buildings.

8. Fire will not be opened in thick, natural fog, except by special order."

"The main armament was two 14mm spray-tubes with quick closing valves, also a hand-held 7mm spraytube with 10m flexible hose and two MG34 or MG42. There were 700 litres of flame fuel carried and 2010 rounds for the MG's."

The extendo hose is clearly visible in the middle two pictures. The tube is nice for firing around the corner of a building without exposing the halftrack to fire...

Burn Baby Burn!

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•  r251-16.jpg (9.48K)
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[cyberia]

P-D, what too ya so long?

[Pirate-Drakk]

cyberia said:

P-D, what too ya so long?

Just saving the best for last!

[cyberia]

Oh, but we're far from last on these.

I still have a ton of old favorites, and by chance I located a book I didn't even know I had with some really great stuff in it.

Between those and that great stuff I know you guys still have squirreled away, this thread is going to get fat!!!

[Pirate-Drakk]

cyberia said:

Oh, but we're far from last on these.

I still have a ton of old favorites, and by chance I located a book I didn't even know I had with some really great stuff in it.

Between those and that great stuff I know you guys still have squirreled away, this thread is going to get fat!!!

These flamthrower vehicles are also dangerous to their crews. Notice in the close up the protective gear they wore when firing the flammers. That had to limit visibility and indicates the hazards of using such weapons. An equipment malfunction could light the whole thing up and if that 700 Liter fuel tank takes a hit from anything, look out! Thin armor and an exposed crew is dangerous anytime but the 251/16 was something of a fuel truck with flame ports. Scary Ride.


An example of how these units would be used is such:

Say there is a large patch of woods and your scouts have identified that a large number of enemy infantry are hiding in there waiting for you to root them out. Nasty job for your infantry so what do you do?

Well, you secure a small area of woods "upwind" of the hidden enemy and bring on the FTs! They pump fuel on a line and light the woods on fire creating a wall of flames that will slowly work it's way towards the enemy positions. If the woods don't want to burn, you nurse the blaze along with the flamm guns. As the wall of fire approaches the enemy, they have to leave their entrenchments and evacuate the area. As they evacuate, they run into your ambushes along the obvious modes of egress and are mowed down.

End of battle.

Trying to light up a forest with a few sticks and matches is possible, but would take some time. The 251/16 can spew fire like mad and with a platoon of them, this task would only take a few minutes.

Like any fragile tool, the 251/16 must be used properly or it will be easily destroyed. However, as a weapon, it could do some serious damage when used effectively.

[Pirate-Drakk]

Just a list of variants for reference:

SdKfz 251 - m.Schutzenpanzerwagen (medium armoured personnel carrier)

Variants

* Sdkfz 251/1 - m. SPW (sometimes with side-mounted rocket launchers)
* SdKfz 251/2 - 8cm Gr.W-wagen (mortar carrier)
* SdKfz 251/3 - wireless vehicle
* SdKfz 251/4 - ammunition carrier for le.I.G. (light infantry gun)
* SdKfz 251/5 - engineer (troops) vehicle
* SdKfz 251/6 - command vehicle
* SdKfz 251/7 - engineer (equipment) vehicle
* SdKfz 251/8 - armoured ambulance
* SdKfz 251/9 - 7.5cm Stu.K 37 L/24 (Sf.)
* SdKfz 251/10 - 3.7cm Pak (Sf.)
* SdKfz 251/11 - telephone vehicle
* SdKfz 251/12 - survey section instrument vehicle
* SdKfz 251/13 - sound recording vehicle
* SdKfz 251/14 - sound ranging vehicle
* SdKfz 251/15 - flash spotting vehicle
* SdKfz 251/16 - flame throwing vehicle
* SdKfz 251/17 - 2cm Flak (Sf.)
* SdKfz 251/18 - observation post vehicle
* SdKfz 251/19 - telephone exchange vehicle
* SdKfz 251/20 - infra-red searchlight vehicle
* SdKfz 251/21 - 1.5cm or 2cm Flak MG-drilling (Sf.)
* SdKfz 251/22 - 7.5cm Pak 40 (Sf.)
* SdKfz 251/23 - 3.7cm Flak

[Freightshaker]

My personal favorite. Sorry, couldn't resist!

[cyberia]

You are excused.;( I remember that little beauty, Scott. Very nice.