[Wustenfuchs]

These images break my heart.


A Japanese-American family heads to the internment camp:
http://


http://

A Japanese-American WW1 Veteran arrives for internment:
http://

[Jim O]

Think that was bad?

We imported them from elsewhere too.

http://worldwartwozo...-nationals.html

[Wustenfuchs]

Yes I read that thread Jim. Unbelieveable.

[Jim O]

In the case of native born US citizens of Japanese descent, I am amazed at how many opted to enlist in the US military to serve while their families were interned.

[salinator]

Jim O said:

In the case of native born US citizens of Japanese descent, I am amazed at how many opted to enlist in the US military to serve while their families were interned.

Even with the indignation of the internment camp, over 75% of the Nisei said they were willing to serve. Those that volunteered and were accepted for service still had to bear with the burden of their family in internment camps.

We all know that the 442nd Regiment was the most decorated unit in US history, given the times, it may well be that they were still shortchanged. They were at Monte Cassino, yet there are no photos of them. They were at the spearhead toward Rome was ordered to halt withen 8 miles of the city to allow other units to pass them and receive credit. They fought in North Africa, Italy, France, and Germany. They received 7 Presidential Unit Citations, 21 Medals of Honor, 52 Distinguishes Service Crosses, 1 Distinguishes Service Medal, 560 Silver Stars, 22 Legion of Merit Medals, 15 Soldier's Medals, 4000 Bronze Stars (one upgraded to Medal of Honor in 2000),
1,200 Oak Leaf Clusters, and 9486 Purple Hearts.

Perhaps their most famous action was when the 442 lost half of its men to rescue their Countrymen. Pursuant to army tradition of never leaving soldiers behind, over a five-day period, from 26 October to 30 October 1944, the 442nd suffered over 800 casualties—nearly half of its roster—while rescuing 211 members of the 1st Battalion, 141st Infantry (36th Infantry Division, originally Texas National Guard), which had been surrounded by German forces in the Vosges mountains since 24 October.

[Wustenfuchs]

The rescue of the "Lost Battalion"


Go For Broke National Education Center >> History >> Historical Information >> Campaigns

[cyberia]

My wife and I recently watched a movie just out on DVD titled "National Pastime".

The title has a duality to it. You guys should check it out. It's an eye opener. It was for my wife.

Heidi is great and well educated, but she has little or no interest in history. Still, I was shocked to learn that she, American born and raised, never heard of the internment of Japanese Americans. She said the subject never came up when she attended school. She was horrified not only at the internment, but the manner in which these people were treated by their fellow Americans.

[Jim O]

There was real fear among the populace, especially on the West Coast, that Japan would attempt an invasion. Instead of putting in the effort to alleviate those fears, the government, in its infinite wisdom, decided to intern these people. Of course it didn't help that they "looked" different and so therefore "could not be trusted".

The sad thing is it could easily happen again. During a state of war or rebellion the President can suspend habeas corpus indefinitely.

From Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution:

Quote

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

Roosevelt's decision was upheld in several Supreme Court rulings.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in the Civil War as well.

[salinator]

Jim O said:

There was real fear among the populace, especially on the West Coast, that Japan would attempt an invasion. Instead of putting in the effort to alleviate those fears, the government, in its infinite wisdom, decided to intern these people. Of course it didn't help that they "looked" different and so therefore "could not be trusted".

The sad thing is it could easily happen again. During a state of war or rebellion the President can suspend habeas corpus indefinitely.

From Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution:

Quote

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.

Roosevelt's decision was upheld in several Supreme Court rulings.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in the Civil War as well.

That is just rationalization by the US Government to justify it's illegal treatment of their own citizens. The Japanese reached the Hawaiian Islands and the Aleutian Islands, no serious threat of invasion of the 48 states by the Japeanese ever existed. In fact, it was the paranoia of sabotage by ethnic Japanese that allowed the US Army Air Corps to be so easily destroyed during Pearl Harbor, and the Pacific Fleet to be manhandled.

Simple fact is that the US citizenry of Japanese descent was easily identified and stood out like a sore thumb compared to citizenry of German and Italian descent. How was the US any less safe from the ethnic Japanese than German or Italian saboteurs? German U-boats were sitting off the coast of the US eastern seaboard and in the Gulf of Mexico, and within distance of light signals. A German or Italian spy on the east coast would have a much better chance of fowarding intelligence than some Japanese guy in San Francisco or Los Angelos.

The internment of the Japanese were wrong. I understand it was a different time then, but I pray that we never again make such a mistake.

[Jim O]

[quote name='salinator'][quote name='Jim O']
That is just rationalization by the US Government to justify it's illegal treatment of their own citizens. The Japanese reached the Hawaiian Islands and the Aleutian Islands, no serious threat of invasion of the 48 states by the Japeanese ever existed. In fact, it was the paranoia of sabotage by ethnic Japanese that allowed the US Army Air Corps to be so easily destroyed during Pearl Harbor, and the Pacific Fleet to be manhandled.

Simple fact is that the US citizenry of Japanese descent was easily identified and stood out like a sore thumb compared to citizenry of German and Italian descent. How was the US any less safe from the ethnic Japanese than German or Italian saboteurs? German U-boats were sitting off the coast of the US eastern seaboard and in the Gulf of Mexico, and within distance of light signals. A German or Italian spy on the east coast would have a much better chance of fowarding intelligence than some Japanese guy in San Francisco or Los Angelos.

The internment of the Japanese were wrong. I understand it was a different time then, but I pray that we never again make such a mistake.[/QUOTE]

All of your points are correct, except suspension of habeas corpus was (and still is) completely legal. The outstanding issue was one of discrimination not legality.

Also, the way it was handled was that the West Coast was made a military exclusionary zone. People were free to relocate but most went to the camps because they had nowhere else to go.

[salinator]

Jim O said:

All of your points are correct, except suspension of habeas corpus was (and still is) completely legal. The outstanding issue was one of discrimination not legality.

But where is discrimination prescribed to be acceptable in the Declaration of Independence, US Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Amendments?

Wrong is wrong. It can't be sugarcoated.

Lt. General John L Dewitt's testimony to Congress:

I don't want any of them [persons of Japanese ancestry] here. They are a dangerous element. There is no way to determine their loyalty... It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen, he is still a Japanese. American citizenship does not necessarily determine loyalty... But we must worry about the Japanese all the time until he is wiped off the map.

Quote

Also, the way it was handled was that the West Coast was made a military exclusionary zone. People were free to relocate but most went to the camps because they had nowhere else to go.

Did you know that anyone with 1/16th Japanese blood was qualified for internment camp? Even Hitler did not consider 1/16th to be Jewish. Where would these Japanese folk go after their property have been confiscated and their bank accounts stripped?

The military exclusionary zone was by order of Executive Order 9066 signed by FDR on 19 Feb 1942. The order included both the east coast and west coast.

BTW, because of the 1/16th rule, some Chinese and Koreans along with others were also herded into internment camps.

[Jim O]

salinator said:

Jim O said:

All of your points are correct, except suspension of habeas corpus was (and still is) completely legal. The outstanding issue was one of discrimination not legality.

But where is discrimination prescribed to be acceptable in the Declaration of Independence, US Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Amendments?

Wrong is wrong. It can't be sugarcoated.

Lt. General John L Dewitt's testimony to Congress:

I don't want any of them [persons of Japanese ancestry] here. They are a dangerous element. There is no way to determine their loyalty... It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen, he is still a Japanese. American citizenship does not necessarily determine loyalty... But we must worry about the Japanese all the time until he is wiped off the map.

Quote

Also, the way it was handled was that the West Coast was made a military exclusionary zone. People were free to relocate but most went to the camps because they had nowhere else to go.

Did you know that anyone with 1/16th Japanese blood was qualified for internment camp? Even Hitler did not consider 1/16th to be Jewish. Where would these Japanese folk go after their property have been confiscated and their bank accounts stripped?

The military exclusionary zone was by order of Executive Order 9066 signed by FDR on 19 Feb 1942. The order included both the east coast and west coast.

BTW, because of the 1/16th rule, some Chinese and Koreans along with others were also herded into internment camps.

I'm not disagreeing with you (although the Declaration of Independence, a fine piece of writing, is not the law of the land) but if you want to know where discrimination is codified in the Constitution, read Article One.

In part it says:

Quote

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Three fifths of all other persons! Slaves, i.e. persons of African descent, were substantially less than human. Even many of Thomas Jefferson's own offspring! Sounds relatively discriminatory to me. That's still there although obviously there are no slaves any longer.

Discrimination was not new to this era, nor did it end immediately after. That's not an excuse but Plessy was still the law of the land in 1942 and was until Brown in 1954.

The United States was a racist country at the time, and used the laws of the land to legally enforce such racism. What was done, sadly, was legal as per the law of the land at that time. Suspension of habeas corpus could happen again and people could be held indefinitely without charges.

[Zephyr]

The final photo in the original post just kills me, the idea of a veteran having to go to an internment camp!

My friend's father was born in a Japanese internment camp in Canada. He has a framed apology from the Canadian government for the treatment of Japanese-Canadians during WWII. I learned about the internment camps from grade 9 history and English class when we read books about it (i.e. Obasan). I'm shocked that anyone would be ignorant about this. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it...for lack of a better phrase.

[Wustenfuchs]

Zephyr said:

The final photo in the original post just kills me, the idea of a veteran having to go to an internment camp!

My friend's father was born in a Japanese internment camp in Canada. He has a framed apology from the Canadian government for the treatment of Japanese-Canadians during WWII. I learned about the internment camps from grade 9 history and English class when we read books about it (i.e. Obasan). I'm shocked that anyone would be ignorant about this. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it...for lack of a better phrase.

I know what you mean about that photo, I think the look on the man's face says he's well aware of the hypocrisy of the situation.