Germany May Reintroduce Combat Valor Awards

[gi-rene]

Originally Posted by Dallas

The problem with that analogy is that Japan as a whole has never admitted guilt for the war or the atrocities they committed. Japanese children are taught almost nothing about the war and absolutely zero about the atrocities committed by Japan during the war. Part of the reason for all of this is that Japan had no Nazi party, no one the occupying powers could easily single out and make an example of. Therefore over the decades for the most part the same powers have run Japan that ran Japan during the war. I remember reading about several Japanese historians over the years that knew the truth of Japans' crimes and have tried to investigate and or publish works about the war. They have virtuely all been intimidated and/or physically assaulted and little has been published in Japan. The people originally blocking these people were former military officers and former or even current higher level civil servants who didn't want the memory of the Army or government to loss face. Today it is the children of these men who do not want their fathers memiories dishonored that are running interference,

I beg to differ a little, I can see what you are saying but times may be changing. Being in HIroshima they even showed the pictures of the crowd celebrating the "Holy Victory" over Nanking... then right afterwards explained about the massacre. I was expecting never to hear about that there, assuming the museum there was going to be a victimization thing. Turns out it was honest to God straightforward fact... I gained a lot of respect being there....

Maybe their gov't won't formally say it... But the stories are being told.

[Dallas]

That's good to hear, perhaps times are starting to change.

[cyberia]

The Iron Cross was and still is a symbol of valor.

Germany was and still is a nation despite what anyone says.

The war ended more than 60 years ago.

If a German solider today displays what it takes to receive his nation's symbol of valor, then Germany should pin an Iron Cross on him or her and tell the rest of the world to get over it.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by cyberia

If a German solider today displays what it takes to receive his nation's symbol of valor, then Germany should pin an Iron Cross on him or her and tell the rest of the world to get over it.

Here, here. Sixty years is a lot of penance. The world has accepted German troops performing duties in dangerous situations on missions outside of Germany. Every one of those men and women were born after the war ended. If a soldier of any nation earns his or her nation's highest honor then who are we to meddle (no pun intended) in the affairs of that nation? Sheesh!

[gi-rene]

Originally Posted by Jim O

Here, here. Sixty years is a lot of penance. The world has accepted German troops performing duties in dangerous situations on missions outside of Germany. Every one of those men and women were born after the war ended. If a soldier of any nation earns his or her nation's highest honor then who are we to meddle (no pun intended) in the affairs of that nation? Sheesh!

I'm with Paul it should be brought back... HELL the article points out that they still use a variation of both it and the Balkenkreuz...

[Wolster]

Well, sorry, but I am going to buck the trend here. If these 'military traditions' are allowed, where does it stop? I find it very hard to believe that an alternative cannot be created to reward todays German service men. The Iron Cross has been tainted by those that wore them who were mass murderers, how ever few they may or may not be!

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by Wolster

Well, sorry, but I am going to buck the trend here. If these 'military traditions' are allowed, where does it stop? I find it very hard to believe that an alternative cannot be created to reward todays German service men. The Iron Cross has been tainted by those that wore them who were mass murderers, how ever few they may or may not be!

So then we single out the majority for the few? Why stop with the IC, why not eliminate all Second World War German references across the board including the Blakenkreuz?

Turn in your models to the thought police, Wolster. There be evil in them!!!

The problem is not the IC. The problem is those who think they can continue to brow beat an entire nation over the crimes of the murderous few now two generations removed. And somehow justify discounting the valor of brave men by citing the example of those who never saw battle.

When we start to strip the battle laurels of those who justly earned them, then we may as well start re-writing history.

[Wolster]

Originally Posted by cyberia

So then we single out the majority for the few? Why stop with the IC, why not eliminate all Second World War German references across the board including the Blakenkreuz?

Unfortunatley, yes! The Iron Cross may not began life as, but is now, very much a symbol of Nazi Germany. In early every picture of the Nazi Hierachy there is an IC hanging at the throat or breast pocket. Would I want to wear the same medal as some of histories greatest mass murderers? No!

Originally Posted by cyberia

The problem is not the IC. The problem is those who think they can continue to brow beat an entire nation over the crimes of the murderous few now two generations removed. And somehow justify discounting the valor of brave men by citing the example of those who never saw battle.

The problem is the rising tide of racism that is sweeping Europe and using Nazi symbology to do it. This could be conveyed as a victory for these people and the 'the German people were just as much victims' mentality that is increasing. The point of history is to learn from our mistakes, not let the liberals to allow the loonies to repeat it! I'm not saying that is what is happening but it could be a toe in the door!!

Originally Posted by cyberia

When we start to strip the battle laurels of those who justly earned them, then we may as well start re-writing history.

We never wrote it correctly in the first place! To the victors the spoils!!

[Tom Houlihan]

So six years out of the 100+ years of the Eiserne Kreuz takes it out of the equation?

From that standpoint, we can find six years worth of nastiness in every country, and every military in said nations' histories. Let's just take it all away!

[Wolster]

Probably the darkest six years in human history, so yes, it matters. They are tainted in my opinion. Particularly whilst victims of that regeme are still alive!

I have my view you have yours, I guess we will have to agree to differ!!