My Year in Iraq, by Paul Bremmer (audio)

[TRDG]

Hello Miss Saigon and now we are here, thanks again for sending your package over, this should be a great time, and maybe help us learn a bit more here to.

OK Zoners, this thread is a bit "different" and thanks to Jim, very possible to do here, so please make any and all posts in a "ladies and Gentlemenly" way as humanly possible. There will be no exceptions here on this and I don't want this thread to be locked down with a "disappointing" post. Any and all comments need to be what is in the book and some of its related topics, but within reason people.

Sorry guys and gals, but I had to get that out of the way first.

Now, MS and I were just PMing some topics we might be intereste in besides WW II, and the final result is that she shipped some audio CDs she had. I picked one randomly (noo kidding, I did not look, I just reached in and grabbed one!!) and this is what I held in my hand last night.

CD 1 the first word spoken in the audio was "chaos", Monday, May 12th, 2003 Iraq.

Starting VERY basic here, I was struck by one of the comments that a former diplimat and now "deputy" (Clay) told Paul as they were flying into Bagdad. Out the window of the airplane they were viewing Bath party official buildings burning in the city. Many comments were made to Paul, but clay's stuck out to me, not sure why, but....

Clay to Bremmer "Lots of scores to settle". Now that to me just struck me, did Paul and his team know all the details of what is going on here, from way before the war, and after, and what was to come? And did they have a solution to this very complicated situation they were just landing into?

Cheers, to some great discussion ahead Miss Saigon, and others who might want to post a well framed and well intended post or two.

Did this comment by Clay strike you at all the way it did me MS?

TRDG

Tom Young

[Miss Saigon]

I think it was ilustrative of the uncertainty of the situation they were facing. Clearly no one could know exactly what lay ahead. And while they had many people already identified that they wanted to be included in the new Iraqi government, they also knew they had to identify others before they could form the transitional government. And these had to come from various competing groups in Iraqi society.

While this may seem daunting, if one thinks about democracy in general terms that is what it is. It is the coming together of various groups who don't necessarily agree with one another, and for that matter often despise each other.

The part I found most interesting about this book was the dealing with the various religious leaders in Iraq, and one in particular.

[TRDG]

I see, I got from what he was "briefed on before he got there, he was walking into something totally different than what he (I think anyways) was led to beleave. But that is getting ahead of myself here!!

To get back to the first disk, when he was talking to his wife Francy, and talking about the job as being half done, and being committed to helping out the best way he can. That to me was an outstanding thought, and then what he went on to try to do was something to be proud of for an old, then new government official to do.

I don't get "into" alot of reports or nothing (at least fairly current ones), but the Rand report talking about having 20 troops per 1000 people living in a country (taken I think from the experiences of post German and Japan reconstruction??). That is 500,000 troops on the ground in Iraq, WOW!!! now that number shocked me there!!

Cheers, if I happen to make some info mistakes, please correct me for those of you more in "the know" here on this topic.

Tom

[Miss Saigon]

Originally Posted by TRDG

I don't get "into" alot of reports or nothing (at least fairly current ones), but the Rand report talking about having 20 troops per 1000 people living in a country (taken I think from the experiences of post German and Japan reconstruction??). That is 500,000 troops on the ground in Iraq, WOW!!! now that number shocked me there!!

Tom

Not to get ahead here too much, but when you get to the book by Tommy Franks and his disagreements over troop levels with Colin Powell the troop level thing comes more into perspective. Certainly I am learning quite a bit about these technical things from these books than I was aware of.

The rand corporation has a long history of doing these kind of researches on unusual social problems in international relationsand and foreign policy. They were heavily involved in Vietnam.

[TRDG]

Roger that my dear, I know I've heard of that term before, I just could'nt place it until your last post, thanks again!!

Lets see here, what was your take on the washington debate (gossip) on "who's man" Paul Bremmer really was? Our government in action, to say the least LOL, the meeting with Bush was very interesting, and I can see the follow through to a certain extent, Bush did not really waver in that we can tell by that meeting. Something along the lines of support you guys over there no matter what the media, other washington "insiders" and popular opinion thought at various times. One might add the military as well, they did change plans a lot, and leaders to there!!

Cheers, I want to give a shout out to Matt in Bagdad, keep your head down buddy and you will get through your second tour there, you said so yourself remember!!!

Tom

[Miss Saigon]

I will give a shout out to Matt in Baghdad too even though I don't know him

On the other hand I knows a few others who have been there already and one who is on his way again.

I think this book and the Tommy franks book paint a picture of political courage on the part of Bush. When people are advising him to take decisions based on the political consequences and election timing he refuses, and instead takes decisions he knows will be unpopular but he sees as supportive of the team in Iraq. Clearly both Bremmer and General Franks were appreciative of what they perceived as support from the White House even though at times it seems like the defense department was obsessed with political considerations even if the white house wasn't. That was surprising.

As to whose man Bremmer was, it seems he was dedicated to getting the job done. When offered opportunities for easier ways out he didn't take them. He had his view of what he thought should be done and stuck to this. It seems to have put him at odds with Congress and DoD but not the president.

But to me again, the most interesting aspect of this book was the work on the formation of the transitional government, the elections process, and the constitution. More than anything I was fascinated by the interplay between the Americans and Ayatolah Sistani. These are details that were just not reported in the press. I have subsequently gone to Sistani's web page and read some of his religious writings. I found it interesting that Sistani issued a Fatwa telling people it was their duty to vote. Including women. He said that it was the duty of women to vote even if their husbands forbid it.

I also particularly enjoyed the press conferences held by the Iraqi government. Those were great!

[TRDG]

Very nice MS, Matt was a game friend of mine when I started FoW, then progressed until he dropped out of sight. He always talked about joining the army, but he bever really talked to much about it. I just saw him some months ago and we gamed again and he talked about some of his first tour experiences in Bagdad. Lets just say it was'nt to good and it really disturbed him a lot. That is all I will say there, then he headed off for his second tour back to Bagdad a little bit wiser I think.

Anyways, back on topic now, his first meeting with the new and old staff was a wake up call for them. His idea of shooting looters to show the U.S. soldiers mean to keep law and order really seemed to shake those guys up a bit!! No orders to stop looters until this time was something I have heard before, but being varified until now. Then the "leakers" in his own old/new staffers to the press was unforgivable, but I could see a strategy of showing the world his "way" is to put up with no BS from anybody on day 1 being on the ground and totally in charge!!

Bush, there are good things and bad things about him, but say what you will, he supported Bremmer and the troops as best he could. The military heads though, I'm not quite so sure, no disrespect to anyone here!!
Interesting about how Bremmer felt about his new "palace" digs, wrong fronm when it was first picked from the first team as to space and what it might have meant to the Iraq population as well. He put it very well when he said he inherited a "broken" country, but I think he must have expected something like that. Being on the fast track to get there sooner rather than later would give anyone "fair warning"
That hospital he first visited was a crying shame, just listening to that really made me "feel it" more than just reading it in a book. Was it the samr for you, or do you like reading books when not commuting to and fro Miss Saigon?

Cheers, the second CD is done, but I was'nt to "excited" about that one, I'll have to listen to it again.......

Tom

[Miss Saigon]

Of course the hospital scene was heart wrenching. They always are. Of course the hope is that these conditions have continued to improve over time. He doesn't talk much more about this. By the end of the book he revisits some of the places he saw when first there, but I don't recall him visiting the hospital before he left. Of course, the audio book is abridged so who knows.

The school stories are good ones of success though. These are very hopeful.

[TRDG]

I did'nt get that far yet, I'm still trying to "get" the second disk, not sure what I can comment on there, But I should find something I hope........

Cheers

Tom

[TRDG]

Your thoughts on the "media switch" from the victorious U.S. troops one day after the victory, then a 180 to the total rampant looting that was pictured then? I can see some people in the government (ours) getting a little excited over this, but I can't beleave there was no real plan in case this happened, did'nt someone even think of this, I suspect not!!
Then Paul Bremmer and his dress code, the suit and tie, I thought he was dead on there, in showing respect to the population, his seriousness of the job at hand and the "look" of someone actually being in charge over there, compared to how others dressed before he showed up. Then trying not to portray any arrogence towards anyone, with his thought that this was learned, or should have been learned from the WW II occupation of Germany and Japan.

Cheers, thoughts?

Tom