My Year in Iraq, by Paul Bremmer (audio)

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by Miss Saigon

I haven't read any of Paul's work. I am sure he is different. He knows who I hate and where I am coming from. Fortunately I think Paul understands me, even if he has to take my insults of his profession ???

Not only do I understand your POV, but share it.

[TRDG]

I thought so guys, that was why I kinda brought it up, then maybe if Paul has any thoughts on this book he could share them as well. No clue though if he ever read (or listened)to this one, Paul Bremmer seemed to be a very good man, at the right place and at the right time for there, and with the full backing of the president come hell or high water, which kinda did over there.

Cheers

Tom

[Miss Saigon]

The problem is that I think this is an obscure book. The only reason I picked it up was that I had run out of choices in audio books at the used book store. Which is the same reason I bought the Tommy Franks book, although he served in VN. I passed over this book several times but then finally bought it when I ran out of choices.

I am glad I did buy it because I found it to be interesting, more than I expected, but I get the impression it is not a widely read book. Besides, it will probably be a few years before Iraq and Afghanistan history comes into its own.

[TRDG]

Beleave it or not, I did hear of it, but that was about it when it came out....

Yes, the hisory writen on this American and Iraq chapter will be very interesting in the future, what do you think "they" will say (write)?

Anyways, what did you think about the saction abuses there before the war, he touched on it briefly, but we all kinda knew about it befoe we even sent it and gave our U.N. approval, we just knew Sadam would pull this. I just hope it helped some people over there brfore you know who got ahold of it......

Cheers

Tom

[Miss Saigon]

Originally Posted by TRDG

Yes, the hisory writen on this American and Iraq chapter will be very interesting in the future, what do you think "they" will say (write)?

Hard to evaluate what I believe the history will be because I haven't read all that much about it. But certainly I know what I hope will be written.

I never want to see the US lose a war. So of course my hope is that it will read something like this. "America managed to find the patience in a difficult situation and today that is paying off in Iraq, with a functioning democracy, religious tolerance, human rights, and a expanding role for women in society". That is my hope.

Anyways, what did you think about the saction abuses there before the war,

Well, certainly there was a lot of evidence of problems in the Oil for food program. Of course I wonder if anyone ever really believed in a totalitarian society that somehow the people would have been the recipients of needed supplies rather than confiscation by the government. And of course there were the nations that violated the sanctions.

I wonder if sanctions ever really work? I haven't read much about this but if I had to guess I would say it is rare they succeed. Although I think we just saw them succeed in North Korea? At least it appears that way. Who knows? My gut feeling is most of the time they fail. For the same reasons they failed in Iraq. A totalitarian government imune to the suffering of its people and outsiders willing to break the rules to benefit themselves.

[TRDG]

Just what I might have thought of, COOL!!! I'm kinda in the same boat as you and others here I bet, I'm not as much into semi-current events all the time. But when it strikes my fancy (read moods here) then I get a little fired up for the "quest" for info and interesting discussions like we are having now.
I wonder if anyone else has any hard info on other sanctions here from other countries that were a bit more successfull....??

Cheers

Tom

[Miss Saigon]

It happens that I am listening to another Iraq book now. My choices are so limited at Half Price Books these days so I am broadening my horizons quite a bit.

This time I am listening to one called "Heroes" by Oliver North.

There is an event described in this book that I thought was just great. A Marine Helicoptor was diverted to pick up some wounded Marines. When they got there they found a severely burned little girl among the Marine casualties which were much less severe. She had been burned in a cooking oil accident just before the war in Iraq started. When the US Marines showed up nearby after invading Iraq the parents of the little girl rushed her to the first American soldiers they could find and asked them to help their girl. The Marines treated her among their own and called for Medevac. The Marine Helocoptor that picked up the girl was not equipped to fly out to sea, but her burns were so bad that the only facilities in the region that could help her were on a Navy hospital ship. So the Lt. Colonel flying the helocoptor decided to violate procedure and fly the girl out to sea to a hospital ship.

Heroes Yes.

It was a very touching story. I only wish the press would see fit to report these kinds of stories about the men and women in uniform more often intead of all the chicken little stuff that is the stock of their profession.

[TRDG]

Now that's a great story, I always wanted to pick up that book, and I think there is more than one book of Heroes by North. I may have to stop off at the book store on my day off tomorrow or maybe my vaca after Friday this week!!

Sorry MS, I am still digesting that second disk with some questions and comments, I hav'nt forgotten. I am just trying to make sure that it will interest you, and others maybe.

Cheers, Tuesday I will narrow down my page of notes for ya to see here!! Ha Ha...!!

Tom

[Miss Saigon]

Originally Posted by cyberia

Not only do I understand your POV, but share it.

As Paul Knows, my distrust of the press goes back a long way. Way before I was born. But you don't have to go back that far to find the same kinds of examples of why.

In the book I am currently listening to I just came across another such example. During the run up to Baghdad, which the press was saying would take months (which is not my point here but why doesn't anyone ever go back and check to see how often the press is wrong), the NY Times reported that the Marines were running out of supplies. When the embedded reporter with the Marines heard this he grabbed two Marines close by and went live without telling them in advance what they would be asked. He then asked how their food and water situation was, their Ammo situation, and supply situation in General. The Marines replied that the only thing they needed was more enemies (many were surrendering saying they were happy to see Saddam taken out, which also wasn't being widely reported). The Times then reported that the Marines were being scripted. That does not sound very much like an effort to get to the truth, but instead an effort to defend a position.

In WWII, the press would not have been allowed to report on a supply shortage even if it were true. Since Korea the press can report on anything it wants, even if it is false.

It is a very interesting exercise to go through Lexus Nexus checking news headlines after the fact against subsequent events to see how often the press got it wrong. Moreover, it is interesting to check and see how few reporters actually go back and report these failures.

The Press often demands predictions from the government. When a government official gets his crystal ball predictions wrong he is hammared in the press as if he should be infallable and held to his predictions as a form of accountability. When the press gets it wrong no one says a word, much less holds it against the reputation of the reporter or news agency.

[TRDG]

The thing is though, many "soldiers" who have had other combat before, pretty much thought it would be fairly "easy" except WMD (Chem, Bio attacks). There were some snags along the way as we all know, but I think it was a very well run thing until we won that is!!
After that, all bets were off so to speak, don't ya think?

Cheers, sorry about the delay, I was busy getting my vaca plans and stuff work related in order.

Tom

Fresh post on the second disk Sat.