Otto Carius on when button up or not... in your Tiger!

[Fabfire]

This is from another forum, but I think it's an interesting topic...

Here’s what Otto Carius has to say about buttoning up in “Tigers in the Mud” p. 117-119.

“The most important consideration came after all the material conditions were filled. The personal aggressiveness of the commander while observing was decisive for success against numerically vastly superior enemy formations. The lack of good observation by the Russians often resulted in the defeat of large units. Tank commanders who slam their hatches shut at the beginning of an attack and don’t open them again until the objective has been reached are useless, or at least second rate. There are, of course, six to eight vision blocks mounted in a circle in every cupola that allow observation. But they are only good for a certain sector of the terrain, limited by the size of the individual vision block. If the commander is looking through the left vision block when an anti-tank gun opens fire from the right, then he will need a long time before he identifies it from inside the buttoned up tank.

“Unfortunately, impacting rounds are felt before the sound of the enemy gun’s report, because the speed of the round is greater than the speed of sound. Therefore, a tank commander’s eyes are more important than his ears. As a result of rounds exploding in the vicinity, one doesn’t hear the gun’s report at all in the tank. It is quite different whenever the tank commander raises his head occasionally in an open hatch to survey the terrain. If he happens to look halfway to the left while an enemy antitank gun opens fire halfway to the right, his eye will subconsciously catch the shimmer of the yellow muzzle flash. His attention will immediately be directed toward the new direction and the target will usually be identified in time. Everything depends on the proper identification of a dangerous target. Usually, seconds decide. What I said above also applies to tanks that have been equipped with a periscope.
…
“No one can deny that the many casualties among the officers and other tank commanders were due to exposing their heads. But these men didn’t die in vain. If they had moved with closed hatches, then many more men would have found their death or been severely wounded inside the tanks. The large Russian tank losses is proof of the correctness of this assertion. Fortunately for us, they almost always drove cross-country buttoned up. Of course, every tank commander had to be careful while peering out during positional warfare. Especially since the turret hatches of tanks in the front lines were continuously watched by enemy sharpshooters. Even a short exposure could be fatal for the tank commander. I had commanded a folding artillery scope for just such cases. Actually, such a scope shouldn’t be missing in any fighting vehicle.”

Otto Carius, Tiger 1 commander, over 150 tanks destroyed.
…

I think Carius’s credentials speak for themselves.


Carius is the first from the left, on the front of his Tiger.

And a little curiosity: Do you know that some guy named Hayao Miyazaki painted a Manga based on Carius' "Tigers In The Mud" book? The Manga is called "Otto Carius: Doromamire no tora" (Tigers Covered With Mud) If anyone wants to take a peek, go to: Otto Carius - The Miyazaki Web

Cheers,

Fab

[TRDG]

Thanks for the fresh thread Fabio, for me, that rang very true in the Eastern front, there were also scizzor(?) telescopes in use for the Germans, at least some of the better commmanders did. So you would not actually have to put your "head" on the line to get a good sighting of the enemy, and terrain ahead while you are on the move!!

Cheers, now what was the "Allied" way of doing things, besides the Russians, does anyone know by chance?

Tom

[LAH 1 SS]

nice article very nice indeed

[Fabfire]

Originally Posted by TRDG

Thanks for the fresh thread Fabio, for me, that rang very true in the Eastern front, there were also scizzor(?) telescopes in use for the Germans, at least some of the better commmanders did. So you would not actually have to put your "head" on the line to get a good sighting of the enemy, and terrain ahead while you are on the move!!

Cheers, now what was the "Allied" way of doing things, besides the Russians, does anyone know by chance?

Tom

Ah, yes, those were coincidence rangefinders - for long range gunnery.

The western allies had their way with this issue, too. I'm quoting from memory, but I think GEN Patton (or GEN Craighton Abrams) threatened his tank commanders with welding their hatches open...

Personally I think it was like Carius described for all tank commanders, regardless of whose side they fought during WW2 and beyond. I remember reading somewhere that Allied tank commanders went through an ordeal in the close terrain of Normandy, where German snipers got the nasty habit of shooting at the tank's commanders heads.

You see, tank commanders have to have situational awareness in combat. The closer the range the more critical it becomes. When they and their crews get buttoned up, they have a major problem actually seeing what's happening. It's a very dangerous, risky situation, but if you are a tank commander, you'll have to keep your head exposed.

Cheers,

Fab

[TRDG]

Thanks for the info Fabio, I will join LA 1 SS in my thoughts on this one as well!!

Cheers, good stuff!!

TRDG

Tom

[Pirate-Drakk]

Originally Posted by Fabfire

Otto Carius, Tiger 1 commander, over 150 tanks destroyed.
…

How come Wittman is always called "Germany's greatest tank Ace" when he destroyed less tanks then Carius?

[McCoy]

That's politics as Wittman was NSDAP's little lapdog n' therefore got all the attention.

[LAH 1 SS]

Originally Posted by McCoy

That's politics as Wittman was NSDAP's little lapdog n' therefore got all the attention.

yeh thats a fair point plus also he belonged to the 1 SS LAH Hitlers general work horse and bodygaurd unit. LAH (or any Waffen ss unit for that fact) was supposed to be the cream of the crop hence why they got special attention

[MAGNA]

Very good post. Makes sense to do it that way too. Normandy was difficult for both sides as far as tanks went as JIM has said.

The German 88 gunners had problems at longer ranges with the Churchill VII because of it's heavy armour so they used FLAK rounds to create airbursts above the tank/s to try to hit the commander. This means they must have kept their hatches open too.

I agree with the Wittman thing. There were others who had more kills and proved to be excellent commanders. Two others who come to mind are Knispel and Von Strachwitz.

[Fabfire]

Originally Posted by MAGNA

Very good post. Makes sense to do it that way too. Normandy was difficult for both sides as far as tanks went as JIM has said.

The German 88 gunners had problems at longer ranges with the Churchill VII because of it's heavy armour so they used FLAK rounds to create airbursts above the tank/s to try to hit the commander. This means they must have kept their hatches open too.

I agree with the Wittman thing. There were others who had more kills and proved to be excellent commanders. Two others who come to mind are Knispel and Von Strachwitz.

Thanks, Magna!
Great observation on the Churchill VII. About Wittmann - I couldn't agree more, and IMHO, he was too impulsive and tended to put the men under his command at unnecessary risk. This behavior ended in that famous "Death March" in Normandy, where Wittman's Tiger was blown off by a Firefly ambush, along with three more Tigers under his command.

Cheers,

Fab