Halifax found in Poland

[TPMM]

Group of historians from the Museum of Warsaw's Rising is about to end digging up Handley Page Halifax Mk. II number JP-276A, which was shoot down on 4 VIII 1944 near Tarnow. It was transport version, and plane was flying from Campo Casale (southern Italy) to drop a supply pods near Skierniewice (central Poland).
The wreck is in quite bad condition, but specialists are willing to fix it and place in Warsaw's Rising Museum.

[TPMM]

halifax - Ogólnopolski miesiêcznik ODKRYWCA

[Lancer44]

Hi TPMM,

"Group of historians from the Museum of Warsaw's Rising is about to end digging up Handley Page Halifax Mk. II number JP-276A, which was shoot down on 4 VIII 1944 near Tarnow. It was transport version, and plane was flying from Campo Casale (southern Italy) to drop a supply pods near Skierniewice (central Poland).
The wreck is in quite bad condition, but specialists are willing to fix it and place in Warsaw's Rising."

Thanks for information!
Let's sort it out...

Canadian Halifax dropped it's load over Warsaw and was shot in so called "bermuda triangle" - Cracow - Tarnow - Bochnia.
Most of allied planes were shot there...
Halifax crashed into marshes. After the war, communist authorithies ordered covering protruding from the marsh parts with dirt. Local people remembered...

I will try to find Halifax number and fate of seven Canadian airmen. There is slight possibility that this wreck is a grave... I will try to find quickly...

Regards,

Lancer44


z Gazeta.pl : Error 404
Halifax ukryty pod ziemią
Krzysztof Jóźwiak
Na polu pod Tarnowem pracownicy Muzeum Powstania Warszawskiego odnaleźli brytyjski bombowiec, który w 1944 r. przyleciał z pomocą dla walczącej stolicy
Maszyna pilotowana przez siedmioosobową kanadyjsko-brytyjską załogę pomyślnie wykonała misję nad Warszawą i wyruszyła w drogę powrotną do bazy we Włoszech. Niestety, w okolicach Tarnowa samolot został zestrzelony, a cała załoga zginęła.

- Obszar między Krakowem, Tarnowem a Bochnią w 1944 r. był nazywany trójkątem bermudzkim, bo właśnie nad tym obszarem Niemcy zestrzelili większość alianckich samolotów lecących z pomocą dla Warszawy - przypomina Piotr Śliwowski, historyk z Muzeum Powstania Warszawskiego.

Halifax upadł na podmokły teren i częściowo przykryła go woda. Po wojnie władze zdecydowały, by wrak zasypać. Przez kilkadziesiąt lat o jego istnieniu wiedzieli tylko okoliczni mieszkańcy.

[TPMM]

It may help you:
1) Local people says, that Halifax was shoot about 11pm. It makes the matter clear: it was flying to Warsaw, because it was far to early for him to be going back after a drop.
2) Some amount of money was found around the wreck during the war. It is almost sure, that it was money that had been given to crew in case of being shoot, to increase their chances of surviving on the ground.
3)Germans had established Dunaja sector in so called "bermuda triangle" - Cracow - Tarnow - Bochnia. Dunkel Nachtjagd (dark night hunt) was a method of intercepting allied bombers. Nightfighters were being guided bt ground radar sites.
Nachtjagdwaffe is my favourite aspect of WWII, so I'll be glad to help you to check, if that Halifax was shoot down by one.

[Lancer44]

Originally Posted by TPMM

It may help you:
1) Local people says, that Halifax was shoot about 11pm. It makes the matter clear: it was flying to Warsaw, because it was far to early for him to be going back after a drop.
2) Some amount of money was found around the wreck during the war. It is almost sure, that it was money that had been given to crew in case of being shoot, to increase their chances of surviving on the ground.
3)Germans had established Dunaja sector in so called "bermuda triangle" - Cracow - Tarnow - Bochnia. Dunkel Nachtjagd (dark night hunt) was a method of intercepting allied bombers. Nightfighters were being guided bt ground radar sites.
Nachtjagdwaffe is my favourite aspect of WWII, so I'll be glad to help you to check, if that Halifax was shoot down by one.

You may send me info on Prive... I speak Polish...

More about Halifax...

"Trwające obecnie prace badawcze pozwolą zweryfikować fakty dotyczące wraku podawane w różnych przekazach i źródłach historycznych. Najczęściej podaje się, że zestrzelona w Dąbrowie maszyna to czterosilnikowy bombowiec Handley Page Halifax JP-276 "A". Leciała nim 7-osobowa załoga, w skład której wchodziło pięciu Kanadyjczyków i 2 Brytyjczyków. Pilotem samolotu był Arnold R. Blynn. Pozostali to: George A. Chapman, Harold L. Brown, C. B. Wylie, Arthur G. W. Liddell, Frederick G. Wenham i Kenneth J. Ashmore. Nazwiska członków tej właśnie załogi umieszczone zostały przed 4 laty na pamiątkowej tablicy w sanktuarium w Odporyszowie."

There are the names of the crew of JP-276 "A": George A. Chapman, Harold L. Brown, C. B. Wylie, Arthur G. W. Liddell, Frederick G. Wenham i Kenneth J. Ashmore.

Regards,

L44

P.S.

I'm not in a position to draw any conclusions from the wreck .. and info coming from excavators...
But, info about 'cash money spread around wreck" is suspicious...

L44

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Lancer44

I'm not in a position to draw any conclusions from the wreck .. and info coming from excavators...
But, info about 'cash money spread around wreck" is suspicious...

I would have to agree. Cash spread about a marsh through 60+ Polish winters and summers would likely be disintegrated.

[TPMM]

I thought that I wrote clearly: coins were found during war by local people!

I posted those (I hope) useful infos on public, to give other members a chance of getting involved into the case.

And I know , that you speak Polish, because you have posted a part of Polish article. I haven't met anybody yet, who would post anything in Polish not knowing that beautiful language (Maybe my conclusion is ridiculous, and may be not)

[Lancer44]

Below link to photos from excavation site:

http://www.tarnow.pl/galeria/galeria_924/index.php

As you can see MPW Museum workers recovered airmen side arms.
I received information that remains of two pilots were recovered as well.

I believe that the whole thing is so sensational that journalists keep cover on it and are busy preparing publications.

Personally I see quite a few questions:

1. What role civilian Poles from the area of crash played in recovery of items from the crash site? The most suspicious is information about coins spread around the wreck.

2. Germans would not leave airmen's revolvers on site. Who recovered bodies?

3. Apparently Halifax JP 276 "A" was not flying to Warsaw. They should drop their load near Skierniewice for Home Army receiving post there.
Most probably weapons dropped would be used to strengthen Home Army local units, which in Operation "Tempest", would go towards Warsaw.
There is no information about drop.

So where is substantial load of weapons and ammo?
Usually drop consisted of STENs, BRENs, PIATs, Mills and Gammon handgrenades and ammo.

4. Anyone has got any info about "survival kits" of crews flying for SOE?
Cash in them probably contained more currencies than Polish "mlynarki", (occupational currency), planes could be shot down above Slovakia, Northern Italy etc.
We don't know at the moment what coins were recovered. Most probably kit contained paper bills and some coins in each currency.
Germans would promptly collect everything from the wreck.
Civilians probably discarded useless for them coins...

5. History of the wreck and a crash site after the war is also suspicious...
According to locals in early fifties parts of the wreck protruding from the ground were covered with dirt. Why?

Anyway the story is very interesting.
If information about finding airmen remains is true, we can expect either full military ceremonial burial in Cracow - they would be buried together with their collegues.
So far not much, but...

Lancer44