WW2 Submachine Guns: PPSh-41 versus Thompson M1928

[lorddeathrage]

PPSh-41 vs. Thompson M1928


PPSh-41




Country of origin: USSR/Russia

Calibre: 7.62mm M1930

Length: 838mm stock extended

Weight: 3.64kg

Barrel: 266mm, 4 grooves, rh

Magazine capacity: 35 round detachable box;
71 round drum magazine

Operation: Blowback

Cyclic rate of fire: 900rpm

Muzzle velocity: 490mps

Effective range: 120m


Strengths

- Extremely reliable

- Cheap and quick to produce

- Light recoil

Weaknesses

- Weak 7.62x25mm cartridge

- No foregrip

- Bulky with drum magazine attached


Thompson M1928




Country of origin: United States

Calibre: .45in M1911

Length: 857mm

Weight: 4.88kg

Barrel: 266mm, 6 grooves, rh

Magazine Capacity: 18 round, 20 round or 30 round
detachable box magazine; 50 round or 100 round drum
magazine

Operation: Delayed blowback

Cyclic rate of fire: 700rpm

Muzzle velocity: 280mps

Effective range: 120m


Strengths

- Powerful .45 ACP round

- Massive ammunition supply

- Excellent craftsmanship

Weaknesses

- Heavy recoil

- Expensive and laborious to produce

- Bulky with drum magazine attached

[McCoy]

Hmm, the 7,62 x 25mm M1930 is not a weak round but in fact a quite potent round instead. Plus it's an excellent penetrator so heavy winter clothing isn't a drawback (it was that in Korea for the US with their .30 US M1 Carbine round) as it still will penetrate plus the fact that you've a light recoil n' a real high rate of fire. So don't put down the round as a weakness please.

Regarding the M1928, the only reliable magazine is the 20 round box. A huge drawback is that isn't a military grade weapon but a civilian peacetime weapon with higher tolerances on the parts in the manufactoring that led to it bein' sensitive to dirt. The drum magazines was real junk n' the rounds in 'em made it near impossible to sneak up on an enemy as they rattled a lot in the drum. The 100 round drum didn't see combat at all. The effective range isn't 120 meters but closer to 75 meters. Yes the .45 ACP is a stopper but it's not a deep penetrating round n' it's low velocity bullet isn't the optimal round for a submachinegun. This comparison also halts on that it should have been the M1A1 Thompson instead of the M1928 as that one have a lower rate of fire n' thus is more controllable plus the fact that it can handle dirt n' war a lot better, it didn't even accept the lousy drum magazines that the M1921 n' M1928 used.

[KG_Panzerschreck]

You forgot horrible climb with the PPSh-41 with anything over a second of trigger pull. Same thing with the Tommy gun actually, but it could be much much worse with the Russian "Goats Leg" because of magazine capacity.

[McCoy]

Yeah but you'll fire 15 rounds in one second with the PPsh-41 compared to 10 rounds in one second with the M1A1 Thompson. Plus the fact that the M1A1 is more than one kg heavyer than the PPsh-41.

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Originally Posted by McCoy

Yeah but you'll fire 15 rounds in one second with the PPsh-41 compared to 10 rounds in one second with the M1A1 Thompson. Plus the fact that the M1A1 is more than one kg heavyer than the PPsh-41.

Those five extra rounds dont matter when they fly up in the air or miss the target off to one side. That extra weight on the Tommy Gun makes it way more accurate because its a very barrel heavy weapon. That helps keep it down, but it will still climb if the whole clip is dumped at once. If shot in short bursts the Tommy Gun could be remarkably accurate for an SMG, something that never could be said for the PPSh-41. Anything past 30 yards.....well you might as well pray or throw the gun at the target, you have the same chances of hitting it.

Edit: Ive actually shot a real Thompson before, not on full auto, it was a semi-auto version only, but it was made to the exact same specifications as the WWII model except the ROF selection. You could shoot 5 inch groups at 50 yards with it. Pretty impressive if you ask me for an SMG.

[Tom Houlihan]

I've never fired one, full or semi-auto, but I've heard that the recoil on the Thompson isn't actually all that bad. Now, I've fired .45 pistols, and I know what that recoil feels like. I would think that with all the extra weight of an SMG, the recoil would be lessened.

Rebuttal??

[KG_Panzerschreck]

Originally Posted by Tom Houlihan

I've never fired one, full or semi-auto, but I've heard that the recoil on the Thompson isn't actually all that bad. Now, I've fired .45 pistols, and I know what that recoil feels like. I would think that with all the extra weight of an SMG, the recoil would be lessened.

Rebuttal??

Your right, there was hardly any kick at all, in fact, you could probably shoot it holding just the pistol grip and having no worries of dropping the weapon, its that light of a kick. In fact now that i think about it you'd have more of chance to drop it from its weight and akwardness in the one hand than from any recoil. This asessment is based on semi-auto ROF only mind you. With as heavy as the weapon is, i doubt that there would be much more recoil to the shoulder in full-auto mode. This is just an educated guess mind you as i have never shot one on full-auto.

[xenos]

I'd go for the PPSH simply for the noise it makes.