US Army Specialist Michael New

[wajdi]

My apologies for any misunderstandings. The incident I referred to was where a series of intelligence data indicated that a specific building was housing a terrorist cell. A squad of Marines were ordered to perform a forced entry and capture any persons in the building. According to proceedure, the door was taken down and several grenades tossed into the room, followed by the squad entering at the 'hair trigger.' Unfortunately, in addition to the terrorists there were some 'innocent' civilians, who kind of got blown apart by the grenades. These are the guys I was referring to.

bill

[Ingsoc]

Originally Posted by wajdi

My apologies for any misunderstandings. The incident I referred to was where a series of intelligence data indicated that a specific building was housing a terrorist cell. A squad of Marines were ordered to perform a forced entry and capture any persons in the building. According to proceedure, the door was taken down and several grenades tossed into the room, followed by the squad entering at the 'hair trigger.' Unfortunately, in addition to the terrorists there were some 'innocent' civilians, who kind of got blown apart by the grenades. These are the guys I was referring to.

bill

Why was the US soldiers put on trial? it's was clearly the terrorist fault, they operate from the civilian population, they used innocent civilians as human shields.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

Why was the US soldiers put on trial?

ach, modern political correctness... look what happens when one draws a cartoon of Mohammed or makes a speech about him....

K

[Klaus]

Someone has got to take the blame. In this case it's soldiers who killed civilians. That sort of thing is no good PR.

[sniper1shot]

ah. Speaking about the UN, had it not been created in the first place then there would be no trouble and armed forces of nations wouldn't have to risk their sodleir's lives running around the world in fights which have nothing to do with them...

HvM, please read what you write before you post.....The UN (in the beginning) was a very responsible organisation....Let us look at Korea. When one Nation invades another then that Nation needs help....Enter the UN. Korea case and point.
United Nation...United Body. Only problem now is that some of the countries with VETO power do not belong there anymore.

IF the UN had not been created then there would of been more conflicts on a larger scale.......


Having served on UN missions (3 to be exact) I can tell you they are flawed but that is another thread.....this thread is about US soldiers having to change uniforms and serve under a foreign command.
NO uniforms change and the Foreign command is usually the HQ elements.

Wajdi-

According to proceedure, the door was taken down and several grenades tossed into the room, followed by the squad entering at the 'hair trigger.' Unfortunately, in addition to the terrorists there were some 'innocent' civilians, who kind of got blown apart by the grenades

This procedure was WWIIish and has been outdated.....because of such "collateral damage" as killing innocent personel. I can honestly tell you that the "shoot first and let God sort them out" mentality is wrong and not even taught to other nations. If this was a mission, then more planning was needed than what went on.

series of intelligence data indicated that a specific building was housing a terrorist cell

The Int Cell failed in this one. It does not sound like a mission of opportunity but a well planned assault or maybe improperly trained soldiers.....either way, they made the mistake of killing innocents and have to face the judge for it.

[wajdi]

The Int Cell failed in this one. It does not sound like a mission of opportunity but a well planned assault or maybe improperly trained soldiers.....either way, they made the mistake of killing innocents and have to face the judge for it.

And if, operating with the same intel data, an aircraft hit the place with a smart bomb and blew everything and everyone there to tiny bits, would the pilot have been prosecuted? No, I don't think so, given the same type claims that have been made in the past, and totally ignored.

bill

[sniper1shot]

Well, not to get into an argument here.

And if, operating with the same intel data, an aircraft hit the place with a smart bomb and blew everything and everyone there to tiny bits, would the pilot have been prosecuted? No, I don't think so

Actually, if you want to bring US pilots into the picture, we have 5 Dead CDN soldiers due to bad comms and US pilots ignoring procedures. Yes, one of the pilots was procecuted and does not fly anymore.

If a Smart bomb was used then that means someone was on the ground "guiding" the bomb to it's target OR someone programed the bomb before it was dropped....as I am sure you are aware of.
Bad INT is still Bad INT.....however, we are talking about a squad of soldiers chucking grenades into rooms before KNOWING if there were Civies in there or only Bad guys.......big difference. The drills are different.

Before we get waaaaaaaaay off topic though, my point is, any soldier refusing to obey orders deserves what charges he is given. We are not talking about shooting unarmed Pow's but of going on a UN mission.

[Klaus]

@Sniper: I agree.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

Well, having served on 3 UN missions

This happen to be you on duty sniper1shot? You posted this on MCF.

**Pictured deleted by moderator as permission was not given to post**

Speaking of anti-partisan warfare, though. There was mention of the Middle East. While Israel's action against Lebanon was 'over the top' for 2 soldiers, I find nothing objectionable to the IDF's tactics against Hezbollah partisans, whether it were a full scale war or over 2 soldiers. Something like the Speerle orders issued to the Wehrmacht. If civilians are killed, it is regrettable but it is entirely the fault of partisans. Back some time ago the US Army officially allowed executions of partisans, but not sure now. The whole partisan/reprisal thing is an intresting matter to study, though.

K

[sniper1shot]

Execution of Partisans is a totally different topic than what was posted. He refused to go on a UN mission.

Yes, that photo is of me w/HMCS Montreal in the background. Was taken in
'04 while on an excersice.