Missing some good guys

[flammpanzer]

I check this site every once in a while and it is okay but it seems to be lacking something or someone. Two guys are missing, they were run out of town by the sherrif and his deputy. They are doing well where they are but I think they miss it here. I don't know why. I don't understand old people sometimes.

flammpanzer

[Jim O]

Next time have the balls to post using your own account rb. No one was run out -- until now.

Bye bye.

[cyberia]

I forget. Who had 30 days in the "When Will He Try Something Like This" pool?

[MAGNA]

Damn. I forgot to place my bet.

[Gotthard Heinrici]

Very unhelpful post. well handled lads Move on citizens, nothing to see here now.

[Duncan]

I'm lost. Why would RB be banned because his son posted?

[Jim O]

Don't troll my site Duncan. It's obvious rb had control of this account.

Last warning.

[Duncan]

It wasn't meant as a troll. I just didn't understand how the post was offensive. It's my understanding (limited) that RB and FP are father and son and RB has been getting his son interested in military history topics.

The reaction to my post suggests to me that the only posts welcome in this thread are those that denegrate RB and that disagreements or questions are not welcome. Perhaps the thread should be closed then.

I've noticed that folks have been censured for things such as disagreeing and questioning. I know you folks are aiming for less conflict and more of a gentlemens' club environment. Many folks came here because of the friction on other forums. WWIIZone is a good place and there are a lot of good people here. I enjoy reading the posts and the chat room. But I think the forum would improve with more open discussion and less censorship.

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by Duncan

It wasn't meant as a troll. I just didn't understand how the post was offensive. It's my understanding (limited) that RB and FP are father and son and RB has been getting his son interested in military history topics.

The reaction to my post suggests to me that the only posts welcome in this thread are those that denegrate RB and that disagreements or questions are not welcome. Perhaps the thread should be closed then.

I've noticed that folks have been censured for things such as disagreeing and questioning. I know you folks are aiming for less conflict and more of a gentlemens' club environment. Many folks came here because of the friction on other forums. WWIIZone is a good place and there are a lot of good people here. I enjoy reading the posts and the chat room. But I think the forum would improve with more open discussion and less censorship.

If you had bothered to read the entire thread you would have realized why the admin staff knew that the account was being used by rb, not his son, and in violation of site rules.

As for censorship, we have rules pertaining to use of derogatory ethnic slurs that will be enforced.

Those who abide by the rules are welcome to stay.

Those who do not, are gone.

Clear enough?

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Duncan

It wasn't meant as a troll. I just didn't understand how the post was offensive. It's my understanding (limited) that RB and FP are father and son and RB has been getting his son interested in military history topics.

The reaction to my post suggests to me that the only posts welcome in this thread are those that denegrate RB and that disagreements or questions are not welcome. Perhaps the thread should be closed then.

I've noticed that folks have been censured for things such as disagreeing and questioning. I know you folks are aiming for less conflict and more of a gentlemens' club environment. Many folks came here because of the friction on other forums. WWIIZone is a good place and there are a lot of good people here. I enjoy reading the posts and the chat room. But I think the forum would improve with more open discussion and less censorship.

Duncan,

Please read the site's rules and regulations. These would be the same ones to which you, rb, et alia agreed when you registered. Please take care careful note to see how moderating decisions may be discussed, and also our policy on racial/ethnic slurs. You can find the link under the "Quick Links" above. I suspect that you won't have any questions as to why you received a warning after reading that. If you do, please follow the proper procedure for dealing with your question.

It's no secret that your friend rb left here in a huff over perceived issues. Interestingly, those issues haven't arisen since he left, leading me to wonder who had the issues. There is no censorship of ideas here, only of offensive slurs. I don't allow nigger, kike, jap, chink, gook, wop, or any other offensive racial/ethnic slurs, except where they are used in proper context/quotes. Do we make mistakes in moderating? No doubt we do. Making them public debates draws in the trolls, something we wish to avoid.

This thread was posted on June 10, 2008. Your buddy's last post had been on May 1, 2008. That's about six weeks. It was my opinion that it was simply made to dredge up crap. That's trolling. We're not interested in that. Dredging it back up when it had been dormant since June 11th was also trolling, your hollow denial notwithstanding. It must feel good to be rb's little lapdog. You're the second one he's gotten to post here about this. Don't bother denying it because you'd be lying and we would all know it.

Now let's get to the facts of the matter. When this thread started, rb had left voluntarily. He had no intention of coming back as he had made clear in a PM to me. He either posted this thread or had his son post on his behalf. Either way it was a violation of several site rules. I refer you back to the rules to which you agreed when you registered. Not being able to tell with 100% certainty who had made the post, I banned them both. The son's account was banned because it had made the post, which of course was untrue. Neither of those two guys had been "run out". Both had left of their own free will. The kid's account was getting toasted either way but the question was what to do with the father's account. Since he wasn't coming back according to him, I decided to ban it also. Shouldn't have mattered since he wasn't using it.

During the course of our subsequent email exchanges rb became vulgar and threatening.


Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:09 PM

I understand that my son has been banned Jim. What's the deal? You carrying out some kind of vendetta against me through my Kid? flammpanzer was told by me not to rock the boat if he wanted to stay at the zone, knowing how you and Paul are. I guess he didn't listen. Big men, picking on a 13 year old. I know that this will not reach the members so I may very well contact each and every member personally and let them know what they can expect. My boy was right, you guys love all of the members, as long as they agree with you.
You should be ashamed of yourselves, ashamed.
Dave "razorboy" Creel

Funny, I had no vendetta. He left and was gone. I had never had a vendetta with respect to him.


My response, Wed 6/11/2008 7:56 PM:

Nothing could be further from the truth. You know that and if you told your son that then your son has a liar for a father. Until yesterday you and he were still members of the site in good standing. You stopped posting of your own accord. No one "ran you off" except yourself. You didn't get your way and you ran off like a little girl.

You were banned, along with his account which you were using, after that post. That wasn't until yesterday. I don't need the disruption. The site is for discussion of World War II, not for you pursuing your childish agenda.

Go ahead and email anyone that you like. Like that post allegedly made by your son, you're as transparent as clean glass.

Get lost.

Jim

His response, Wed 6/11/2008 9:09 PM:

You are the boss Jim, It's your site. I hope you fuckin choke on it.

For a guy who wasn't coming back he seemed to be awfully upset.

I ignored it, he sent another.

Wed 6/11/2008 9:44 PM:

Let me tell you something Doctor, you are merely one of those folks with a heightened sense of self-entitlement and in accordance with your profession one who considers himself generally superior to the masses. Well good for you. You had a site that was dead in the water. Paul came along and revived it. Once he gained a foothold he no longer needed his support truppen underfoot, he slowly eliminated them, much as he will you sooner or later.
What you did to Chris was unforgivable, the way you berated him in front of the whole staff. That did if for me. I simply don't like to be censored. My son did make that statement, much to my dismay, he was sticking up for his old man I guess, otherwise I wouldn't have uttered a word, I'd forgotten about yours and Paul's sorry asses but once you banned a child, scared of him too I guess, you got my attention.
You can call me all the names if you like, it will not change the fact that you have a second rate site that censors historical commentary, where words like Jap, Russkie etc.. never existed in your re-written version of WW2. Be proud of yourselves, you've silenced a 13 year old.
Don't think for a minute that I am a coward Jim, that would be an error in judgement.
If you let it lay, you won't hear from me again, you wouldn't be hearing from me now if you hadn't picked on my kid. Leave it alone Jim. Take your little site to wherever Paul has you headed....... LOL

If only I hadn't heard from him again but evidently he is also a liar among other things.


So I ignored it, hoping it would go away, but he couldn't.

Tue 6/17/2008 9:28 PM:

My attorney has advised me that I should ask you myself to remove that location you so assigned me with such wit, funny guy that you are. You know the one - "In the latrine where I belong". He also thinks that it would be a good idea if you removed all traces of my existence on your site as I have previously and am yet once again requesting of you. I guess you leave that kind of thing up to remind the rest of the sheep there to behave or else ...... Hitler would be proud! You are the man Jim, keep 'em under control! They might question you and then who knows what will happen.
Do as I request Jim before this escalates any further. I've asked you twice to leave this alone and let it go. It needs to end ....... now. I've got better things to do and I'm sure you do too. Let it go and do as you are told.

Now I am not one to "do as (I) am told", least of all by a jerk like this. So I ignored it again.

Then, on Thu 6/19/2008 3:58 PM:

Let it go Jim, Let it go

Finally, I responded on Thu 6/19/2008 8:22 PM:

dave,

It seems that you are the one unable to "let it go". You keep contacting me, swearing at me, calling me names, making implied threats. You're a real tough guy behind the keyboard.

I suggest that if you want it to die, let it die. Don't keep coming back to my site and sending me threatening emails. It seems that it's becoming an obsession for you.

Oh, and at your request, I did change your user title. I hope that you are pleased. Keep whining about it and I'm sure that I can come up with something else.

As for your lawyer, please tell him to read the site's rules and regulations, the ones to which you agreed when you registered at the site. Anything that you upload to my server is licensed by you for use at the site including your posts and images. If you were not agreeable to that then you should not have registered. If you decide to pursue legal action, please also note that you agreed to do so in Virginia Beach when you registered. I hope that you have deep pockets because I will defend myself and the site vigorously against any attempt to remove any content. If there was something that you didn't want on my server then you should not have put it there.

As for silencing a 13 year old, sorry, but I treat all users the same regardless of age. It's an adult site but I allow teenagers to use it as well. If they cannot behave as adults then they are shown the door. He was not the first, might not be the last either. A post was made on his account that was an obvious attempt at trolling. If it weren't for the fact that it was your son's account I might have issued a warning, but in my judgment the post was made by you or at your behest. It also was plain old false. None of you were forced off the site. As I said, you, your son, and Chris were all still members in good standing until that post was made. Chris still is. You and Chris had voluntarily decided to stop posting.

Now as for your decision to leave when I berated Chris, that isn't exactly so. When I moved his first post to the staff forum you practically begged me to become an additional moderator of the model section, just as you had asked to become a moderator in the first place. It was only after Chris made an ass of himself a second time, after promising not to make such posts in the future, that you decided to leave.

For the record, all of the decisions were mine and not Paul's, though generally Paul has had a moderating influence on me. I wanted to fire Chris as a moderator after that first dumbass post of his, but Paul convinced me to give him another chance. When I considered banning him after the second episode, Paul convinced me to just fire him as a moderator and not to ban him. Paul also convinced me not to ban you and your son when an earlier trolling post was made on your son's account (yes there was at least one other which I ignored).

Now as far as your whitewashing history accusation goes, again nothing could be further from the truth. In proper historical context any words can be used within reason. So if someone were quoting a newspaper article about the attack on Pearl harbor, the use of "Jap" could well be appropriate. If this were a literature site and we were talking about Tom Sawyer, we could quote text even where "nigger" was used. It's in the text and was in common usage around the time of Mark Twain, just as "Jap" was at the time of World War II. What I don't allow is for people to use racial epithets in their own text. This is 2008 and that is plain old disrespectful. When he was a child, Paul got called "Nazi" more times than he can remember. He probably also got the shit beat out of him more than once over it. Would it be OK if I called someone a "Nazi" now just because they are German? What if their father fought in the Wehrmacht? What about a Wehrmacht veteran? I don't think so. I have made a point that I don't like the term "Nazi Army" or "Nazi Soldiers" because by and large the soldiers were simply patriotic Germans fighting for the Fatherland, not for Hitler or for the NSDAP. So I made a judgment, and I drew a line. I don't allow racial epithets of any kind on my site except where they are used in an historical context and changing them would change the meaning of the quoted text. My site will not be a vehicle for people's petty prejudices and agendas. Writing on the Internet lacks tone and facial expression. It is only written words and they can be easily misinterpreted. What you may take as harmless banter may be offensive to many who read it. When a complaint is made I am the one in the middle and frankly, I don't want the hassle. World War Two Zone is a hobby for me, not my life. If it is a small site, that's fine. If it's a big site it means more headaches and bigger expenses. It makes no money. The ads cover only a portion of hosting expenses and none of the costs of software upgrades. I am providing prizes for group builds out of my pocket.

What this all boils down to is that I would rather have a small, troll free site, than a larger one with even one or two trolls. You and your son have declared yourselves to be trolls. Such input is neither needed nor wanted. Since you have made clear that you no longer have an interest in the site the issue is your son. You seem so upset that he can't use a site that you consider inferior. If he wants to return he can email me with his pledge not to use the forums as a place to troll and I will certainly consider it. That is being more than fair.

I know that you think Paul and I are Nazis. Your entitled to that opinion, but opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Oh, and Paul says "Heil!".

Jim

He seemed to go away until Fri 7/18/2008 8:32 PM:

Guess you and Paul have got it fixed for McCoy huh? Can't have a dissident win even if the master's choice builds crap. You can't tell me that the fix isn't on ......you douchebags. Rot in Hell, no better yet rot in that hole you call the zone.
Have a nice day,
rb

For a guy who could not care less about this place, he sure follows events here closely. LMAO....

I can provide full headers and IP addresses of these email's should you doubt their authenticity.


As for that build, it was a fair vote by members. Interestingly, both sides had members who never or virtually never post here vote for their entries (like you did and so did others), just like rb did in the ACG build that he entered while he was on vacation from there. Seems rb couldn't drum up enough votes for his friend. I emailed Chris to reiterate the fact that he was a member in good standing and that he should come by and vote for himself. I would be happy to have a neutral third party come in and review the votes and the IP's from which they came should there be any real doubt as to the fact of who won. The person would have to be agreeable to us all and sign a confidentiality agreement. They would have access to IP's and emails of all of the voters.



So if I didn't have reason to ban rb before those emails, I do now. Please note that I did offer in one email to consider allowing his son to return. Not surprisingly, he has shown no interest.

LT is still a member in good standing here.

Now this matter is closed.

Don't be a lapdog for that guy. It's beneath you.