Credit where credit is due

[Wustenfuchs]

My, possibly ridiculous, rant.

Over the weekend I met a fellow that claimed to be a WW2 fanatic, ok so far. When I mentioned my father was there as a member of the 83rd infantry division he corrected me "There was no 83rd infantry division, you must mean the 82nd."

Why is it Hollywood has led everyone to believe that the only units involved in Europe were the 82nd and the 101st and occaisionaly the 29th, with a few Rangers thrown in? And for that matter the only troops to fight in the PTO (supposedly) were Marines!

I guarantee every one of the lesser known divisions faced hardships and obstacles equal to whatever the more famous divisions faced.

Gol dang it!

[cyberia]

Now Bill, you should know by now that for some people the best historic reference material is Hollywood movies.

Where else can we learn that the sun sets in the east(Ballad of the Green Berets)
The American Navy captured the first working enigma machine(U-571)
Recently freed slaves wore digital watches(Glory)
The British rout in France was a victory(Dunkirk)
And both sides used the same type of tank, just different colors(Battle of the Bulge)

[Wustenfuchs]

Originally Posted by cyberia

Now Bill, you should know by now that for some people the best historic reference material is Hollywood movies.

Where else can we learn that the sun sets in the east(Ballad of the Green Berets)
The American Navy captured the first working enigma machine(U-571)
Recently freed slaves wore digital watches(Glory)
The British rout in France was a victory(Dunkirk)
And both sides used the same type of tank, just different colors(Battle of the Bulge)

Dag nabbit Paul, you reminded me I'm just a grouchy old guy! How did we manage to win that one? I guess our Korean war era tanks were better than theirs (in WW2)
I coulda sworn my Dad was in WW2

[cyberia]

Think about it. How many times have you heard someone discuss a historic event and say "I saw in a movie once..."

That's why I came to this site. I was tired of arguing history with some people who thought "Hogan's Heroes" was a documentary.

[Holly6]

Originally Posted by Wustenfuchs

Dag nabbit Paul, you reminded me I'm just a grouchy old guy! How did we manage to win that one? I guess our Korean war era tanks were better than theirs (in WW2)
I coulda sworn my Dad was in WW2

Buddy, Paul covered the main part. Slug and I talked about this a long time ago. We're both History Teachers, and the stories about parents (usually Dads) that either try to stump you with silly questions or attempt to involve you in discussions like the "82nd Infantry" are legendary. However, I think the vein runs deeper in today’s society. Madden Videos let you be a football star without ever actually playing a down. That silly Video Guitar Game lets you "play music" without ever developing the callouses. In so many ways members of our society want to "belong" without the work and sweat it involves. Of course, the problem is they are left with only a surface image of the real thing.
Besides the factual material we all read, I trust most of us read historical fiction. W.E.B Griffith, Michner, Vidal, heck I'm a Clive Cussler nut! But, unlike those of us not "history geeks" we enjoy them for the story, not the history.
After so many years of dealing with these pseudo-historians, I've learned to just smile, agree, and change the subject to sports.

Sorry, best I've come up with..we've all felt your pain

[Wustenfuchs]

Originally Posted by cyberia

Think about it. How many times have you heard someone discuss a historic event and say "I saw in a movie once..."

That's why I came to this site. I was tired of arguing history with some people who thought "Hogan's Heroes" was a documentary.

Well I remember a famous ex-president that went on and on about his experience in WW2 and as it turned out his grand story was something out of a comic book, it never happened. If I can ever get my act together I would really like to submit my Dad's WW2 story.

[Wustenfuchs]

Originally Posted by Holly6

Buddy, Paul covered the main part. Slug and I talked about this a long time ago. We're both History Teachers, and the stories about parents (usually Dads) that either try to stump you with silly questions or attempt to involve you in discussions like the "82nd Infantry" are legendary. However, I think the vein runs deeper in today’s society. Madden Videos let you be a football star without ever actually playing a down. That silly Video Guitar Game lets you "play music" without ever developing the callouses. In so many ways members of our society want to "belong" without the work and sweat it involves. Of course, the problem is they are left with only a surface image of the real thing.
Besides the factual material we all read, I trust most of us read historical fiction. W.E.B Griffith, Michner, Vidal, heck I'm a Clive Cussler nut! But, unlike those of us not "history geeks" we enjoy them for the story, not the history.
After so many years of dealing with these pseudo-historians, I've learned to just smile, agree, and change the subject to sports.

Sorry, best I've come up with..we've all felt your pain

Thanks buddy. in the long run you're right.

[gi-rene]

Actually even the 82d doesn't get that much attention anymore. Thats why for this upcoming Airborne event I'm only coming as a 101 trooper because we were invited by a 101 unit and their standards are a bit stricter than ours.

But as soon as its over our unit will discuss how we want to utilize it as a secondary impression. I'm voting for the 505th PIR of the 82d. Those guys were tough ol' bastards going against the Hermann Goerring Division and its Tigers with just bazookas.

[Jason G]

My uncles were both 'line grunts', one with the 1st ID, the other with the '78th Lightening'.

But, I assure you, in the Civil War world, everyone at one time wanted to be a 'zouave', or some other off the wall unit, because of the 'cool uniforms'.

Most kids nowadays only know what they see on MTV, VH-1, and whatever they happen to pull off 'wikipedia' when they aren't surfing for porn. Be it WWII, WWI (huh? What's that???) and don't even mention Korea (was that, like, during the Revolution or something?) and Vietnam to them is "the war we lost, then Rambo won".

Blah blah blah.

And dont' get me started on squirrels that 'know' all about military history. I would have smacked the crap out of that idiot then shoved the 83rd's SSI up his nose for good measure.

Lastly, there really was an "82nd Infantry" division, during WWI, so if you want to mess with dolts, use that one instead. Same for the 101. (Extra credit, ask them where the Eagle on the SSI came from....or what the AA means in the 82nd's patch....)

[Geek44]

This is what Hollywood does these days. Keep it simple because the audience are ignorant and aren't interested in changing that. It saddens me (as many will already know) that the standards are so low. Another example for the list...that utter waste of celluloid 'Pearl Harbour'. I watched it on TV 'just to see'. When Ben Affleck and his four buddies (inexperienced combat pilots) climbed into their hopelessly outclassed P-40s to take on the Japanese air force...Ben's tactical advice to his pals was 'stay low'. This breaks the cardinal rule...height equals speed, speed equals life. Of course we all aknowledge that 'Pearl' was an awful film...the only 'good part' was the death of Jon Bon Jovi...but it's another in a long line.
As history recedes the facts get blurry. Corporate entertainment doesn't care as long as the money keeps rolling in.
I had a conversation once with a woman who claimed that Hermann Goring was a drug addicted transvestite who wore pink uniforms and that this was 'common knowledge'. This may be true but I've never once read anything anywhere to support this assertion. I've also heard tales about the sexual weirdnesses of Hitler himself...all 'anecdotal'. Again, I've never read anything to support these theories. People will swallow anything if it's 'sensational' enough. Part of the reason I remain cynical about the things I hear about J. Edgar Hoover.