Western only till 1943

[MAGNA]

This may go in hand with the Sealion thread.

What if Germany had deferred the invasion of Russia until 1943 to allow the concentration of effort to be put on taking Britain out of the war ?

This would include a larger presence in the Mediterranean area. Would Egypt have fallen ? Gibralatar ? Malta ?

Would the sealanes around Britain have been choked ?

Would it have been possible to force Britain out of the war ?

Note - this still includes US participation with a German declaration of war after Pearl harbour.

[McCoy]

For starters the German war machine wouldn't hav had as much heavy tanks as the Panther for example wouldn't have been developed n' thus they would have considerably more problems with a better equiped Russian army.

[Panzermacher]

For starters the German war machine wouldn't hav had as much heavy tanks as the Panther for example wouldn't have been developed n' thus they would have considerably more problems with a better equiped Russian army.

Urban, that's true. Panthers were the answer to T-34's... And Like you I am sure the Russians would not have sat idle....they would have beefed up there Forces.

I am not real sure if the KM could have "Ruled the seas" Takes ships to do that...and Germany just wasn't building and developing them fast enough. Some carriers would have been useful, and Many more submarines. With the US entry, that pretty much sealed the fate of the Sea War. US and British forces then could share knowledge and tactics. The US had many ships to put out in the sealanes..Civilian and military. And when the US geared up for full war, Germany was still building at pre-war quotas. Can't rule an Ocean if you don't have the ships to do it...

[Jim O]

By 1943 Stalin may have made the first move and the war might well have been a long drawn out affair, perhaps mainly in Poland.

[Aussie Dave]

Well assuming Stalin remained a close ally of Germany till then, it could have changed the war's timeline radically.

But thats again ASSUMING that the invasion of Russia was timed perfectly and went better than Unternehmen Barbarossa did in 1941 and Hitler just left the operation for his Generals to oversee instead of hindering them.

Also Russia would have to be defeated very quickly because invasion on Germany's western front was inevitable and they would have to split their resources just as they had to after the Normandy invasion.

How long would the US have stayed out of the war if Japan hadn't attacked Pearl?
Japan's attack stopped us from knowing that exactly and sealed their's and Germany's fate at the same time when they did.

IMHO it would have for Germany prolonged the war at best, but the war's eventual outcome would be the same.



Cheers,
Dave

[MAGNA]

i was what iffing mainly from the perspective of knocking Britain out of the war in 1941 / 42 before the US resources came in too hard.

Could it have been done if the USSR was put on the back burner for another year ?

If it could, what would need to happen ?

Submarines, Aircraft, concentration in the Med ?

This is taking into account more forces being available too.

[Aussie Dave]

i was what iffing mainly from the perspective of knocking Britain out of the war in 1941 / 42 before the US resources came in too hard.

I'm afraid that wasn't going to happen.

The english channel meant Britain could only be defeated by a massive seabourne invasion by the germans and we know all about the "What If's" of that actually happening.

Nah, Britain was never going to give up and surrrender and Germany couldn't have forced them to.


Cheers,
Dave

[MAGNA]

I agree. There doesn't seem to be any way Germany could have done it considering what was available even with resources earmarked for Russia. Air and sea were the areas they needed to dominate and I can't find anything to suggest they could have. Never mind. It was a thought.

[Tom Houlihan]

Had there been a little more emphasis on the U-Boat fleet, without US intervention, there might have been a chance for a negotiated peace with England. In the first war to end all wars, the subs were alleged to have put a major hurt on England's economy and dinner table. Mayhap no Seelöwe, but had they gotten Winston down to about a 32" waist, he might have been willing to talk.

Weren't there enough anti-communists in England to have accepted a truce or peace with Germany if it meant that Germany would be fully engaged with the SU?

[MAGNA]

That's a possibility for sure. Britain suffered in 1917 from the U-Boat activity to the extent where Jellicoe and others gave a time of six months before they would have to negotiate with Germany, such was the extent of the problem.

I don't know whether anyone in Germany ever realised or found out about this but if they had you would think there would have been more emphasis on U-Boat design and production. The first Hydrogen peroxide boats were working early on together with good training facilities. The number of boats in operation was still low though.

The other factor that could have swayed things was the escape of the BEF. Another subject but it ties in. Had the bulk of the BEF been captured there were those in the English government who would have been pushing very hard for an armistice.