The USN failure at Iwo Jima

[Panzermacher]

I don't know about Marcus Island. I think it may have been too small??

I know Iwo was a double edged sword for the US. Not only did it already have the airbases the B-29s needed, but there was a bit of Prestige attached. The Japanese considered Iwo "Sacred Japanese Land" And taking that Island away was a blow at the Morale of the Japanese. (OR AT LEAST TO THOSE WHO FOUND OUT ABOUT IT. Their censorship was pretty total at the time...but word of mouth spreads pretty fast, especially among the Military population.)

IMO of the Islands in the PTO we needed to take...Iwo was one of the foremost. At the time, the B-29s needed a close base to return to, if hit or crippled and Iwo was right smack dab where it was needed! And the Blow to Morale, that even "Sacred Soil" could be taken by the Allies. And the most defining moment of the entire war happened here mostly by accident. A moment most Human beings around the world can recognize by the picture. The raising of that flag on Suribachi. I once asked my Mom about that moment, when the Papers all ran that picture (And which she had saved til mice destroyed it), and she said it was the biggest shot in the arm the American people had seen yet so far. She told me it was the moment most people realized..."We ARE winning!"
We knew the cost for ANY island would be high. THe IJA and IJN would defend any Island to the death and they did in all cases. Iwo was no different in that aspect and Kuribayashi's defense plan made it even more bloodier.
I have read some where that 25,000 airmen owe their lives to Iwo Jima, I know that sounds kinda high. If anyone comes across the actual figures of crippled aircraft that used Iwo as a life raft and aircraft carrier, I would be interested in know how many aircrew were saved.
Interesting movie I saw of a crippled B-29 come in for a landing on Iwo, while the Marines were still fighting in the Northern part of the Island.

Edit: Oops did I get sidetracked or what? Back to the original topic! I dont think the USN "Failed" at Iwo. I think they did what they could in the alloted time. And even if they had been given 3 or 4 weeks to bombard the Island, it really would have had no detrimental effect on the defenders. Sure some would have been killed or disabled by the shelling, but as deep as they were dug in, the shelling would have no more than a nuisance to the IJN/IJA troops there. The only way to get them out of the Cave Complexes, would be exactly what they did, send in the ground forces and root them out.

[temujin77]

Originally Posted by Panzermacher

I dont think the USN "Failed" at Iwo. I think they did what they could in the alloted time. And even if they had been given 3 or 4 weeks to bombard the Island, it really would have had no detrimental effect on the defenders. Sure some would have been killed or disabled by the shelling, but as deep as they were dug in, the shelling would have no more than a nuisance to the IJN/IJA troops there. The only way to get them out of the Cave Complexes, would be exactly what they did, send in the ground forces and root them out.

Maybe "failure" is too big of a word. With perfect hindsight (note: avoiding the word "Monday morning quarterback" ), I wonder if the Marines could've been sent ashore after just a couple of hours of bombardment instead of 3 days (well, "supposedly" 3 days but we all know how that went) of ammunition wastage?

[Panzermacher]

Good Question.....would it have mattered, I wonder? Not sure how many of the defenders fell to the shelling, because not many records exist. My Opinion, is , that it probably wouldn't have made a difference....

[temujin77]

Originally Posted by Panzermacher

Good Question.....would it have mattered, I wonder? Not sure how many of the defenders fell to the shelling, because not many records exist. My Opinion, is , that it probably wouldn't have made a difference....

Yeah, sure was a waste of shells, and probably wouldn't change history much had they decide to go with just a short (ie. a couple of hours) bombardment for effect. Then again, like I mentioned earlier, we're doing a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking (wow why can't I shake using that phrase lately). USN followed the standard operating procedure and provided naval bombardment before sending the Marines onto the beaches. I definitely wouldn't say the USN did anything wrong, but the fact that the bombardment was generally ineffective still holds true. Whether or not it's deemed a "failure", well, I suppose it's up to each of us to decide.

[temujin77]

Total side note -- Regarding my user ranking here, did I just go from a 2nd Lt. to a Sgt. 1st Class after posting the last message? I just lost my commission? LOL

[Panzermacher]

Originally Posted by temujin77

Total side note -- Regarding my user ranking here, did I just go from a 2nd Lt. to a Sgt. 1st Class after posting the last message? I just lost my commission? LOL

Me too...I just went and cried about all the lost pay!

[temujin77]

Originally Posted by Panzermacher

Me too...I just went and cried about all the lost pay!

We should've joined the Navy! At least we would've been seeing the world!



I did that once.....for 8 years.....saw a WHOLE lot of the world....especially Asia. I saw Iwo from the ocean many times...never got to set foot on it...But my son GI-rene did and I got 2 jars of sand from Iwo

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by temujin77

Total side note -- Regarding my user ranking here, did I just go from a 2nd Lt. to a Sgt. 1st Class after posting the last message? I just lost my commission? LOL

Yeah. Some folk were commenting that I should use more enlisted ranks so here they are. I had to space them into the post counts. Your next "promotion" is due at 400 posts, to Master Sergeant. You can obtain a commission at 750 posts.

[Biscuit]

The Marines can ask for what they need, but is it common for the USN modify it and give the support they feel necessary? I would think so, but have no experience in this arena.

[temujin77]

Originally Posted by Jim O

Yeah. Some folk were commenting that I should use more enlisted ranks so here they are. I had to space them into the post counts. Your next "promotion" is due at 400 posts, to Master Sergeant. You can obtain a commission at 750 posts.

Ah, then reaching 750 posts shall be my next goal in life.

Originally Posted by Biscuit

The Marines can ask for what they need, but is it common for the USN modify it and give the support they feel necessary? I would think so, but have no experience in this arena.

That's essentially what happened, actually. Here's a quote from my page at this URL:

WW2DB: Battle of Iwo Jima

Holland Smith... requested 10 days of naval bombardment before his Marines struck the beaches. To his surprise and anger, the Navy rejected the request. "[D]ue to limitations on the availability of ships, difficulties of ammunition replacement, and the loss of surprise", the Navy said, made a prolonged bombardment impossible. Instead, the Navy would only provide a three-day bombardment.... Vice Admiral Raymond Spruance told Smith that he regretted the Navy's inability to suit the Marines to the fullest, but the Marines should be able to "get away with it."

With hindsight, we know that 3 days weren't enough. Well, 10 wouldn't be enough either. Even if we make it a month-long bombardment, our discussion seems to suggest it wouldn't do much more, either. That Japanese troops on Iwo Jima simply were dug-in so snugly for the Americans to be able to do anything significant to the defenses.