Bloody Peleiliu

[temujin77]

Originally Posted by Panzermacher

An Excellent book I have read on this subject with a Gut-Wrenching first hand account, is "With the Old Breed" by Eugene Sledge.

With the Old Breed-At Peleliu and Okinawa is without a doubt the authority of Peleliu. I have just read it some time in 2007 myself as well; the maggots scene and the Marines harvesting for gold teeth are described in such beautiful detail that I'm surprised I never had nightmares about them.

Aside from that great work, Eugene Sledge also was an adviser to the upcoming HBO miniseries The Pacific. He contributed a lot to the recent Ken Burns The War documentary as well.

[Panzermacher]

Originally Posted by temujin77

With the Old Breed-At Peleliu and Okinawa is without a doubt the authority of Peleliu. I have just read it some time in 2007 myself as well; the maggots scene and the Marines harvesting for gold teeth are described in such beautiful detail that I'm surprised I never had nightmares about them.

Aside from that great work, Eugene Sledge also was an adviser to the upcoming HBO miniseries The Pacific. He contributed a lot to the recent Ken Burns The War documentary as well.

Very true! His Peleliu accounts are very surreal and haunting, one the reader will never forget, that's for sure. "Sledgehammer" is a very unforgettable character, and his experiences pretty much define both of the battles he discusses in the book from a Frontline Marines' point of view.

[Panzermacher]

Ok going on this subject....I would like to bring up the Great debate of whether the Palau Invasion was necessary by the US. It has been argued since the end of "Stalemate" that is was a waste of time, manpower, and resources. The airfield the Japanese had there was no threat to the upcoming Philippines Campaign, and the IJN forces in this area were nil. We could have Island hopped right by it and let it die on the vine.
But...on the other hand, others say it was Necessary for the Philippine invasion and worth all we threw into it to roust the IJN/IJA from the area, and it's airfield poised a direct threat to US Operations in the P.I. Campaign.

Thoughts.....comments.....opinions?

[MAGNA]

It is a Great Debate isn't it ? It seems to have happened in many places during the Pacific War. This thread has been excellent to help get a perspective on the strategy involved and the real war on the ground.

I tend to agree that some of the operations carried out were unnecessary. Was it a bit to do with intelligence reports as well or were they well informed about each island ?

[gi-rene]

If I remember I was drawn into a heavy debate of whether the Marine leadership handled Paulau correctly or not, but I am not very strong in that area so if someone could enlighten me as to the right/wrong decisions made here I would appreciate it. (Sorry the ETO and more specifically the Ostfront gets most of my attention. As a Marine I should know more about the PTO.)

[Panzermacher]

The big debate of Peleiliu was.....Was it worth so many lives, and all the resources, when it could have been "Island hopped". Many Historians and Military men of the time believed the wastes of the Palau Campaign were needless as the the Islands were of no significant value in the big picture of victory in the PTO. But The folks who planned the whole thing argued it was essential to the big picture as it had airbases and a Naval base that directly threatened the upcoming Philippine Islands Invasion.

Personally, I believe this whole campaign was needless. It could have been left to wither on the vine. The 1st Marine Division, and the 81st Army Division could have used better elsewhere (remember...the upcoming Philippines invasion)
And I think the USN could have just cordoned the Palaus off from supply. As far as the airbases and IJN base...they were so insignificant to do any real damage (As by now I read most of the planes based there were destroyed or moved to Taipei, and the Naval base was already in shambles) But that's MHO.

[MAGNA]

The same has been said of Borneo and other places. Many were a waste of lives. Was the Phillipines really necessary or not ? I have seen some refer to it as being unnecessary but I don't know enough to form a clear picture. Any thoughts ?

[Panzermacher]

The only thing I can think of on the Philippine Islands was... They were a Ally and back then, a US Territory. McArthur had made the promise to them "I Shall Return"
By the time the US Invaded the P.I., The Island hopping had put them close enough to stage the invasion of mainland Japan from other areas. I believe the thinking was tke the P.I., and use them as a springboard for Formosa and Taiwan. Another line of thinking was using the Philippines as a supply base and airbase when the Big Show in Japan went down.

With the USN defeating the remains of the IJN at Leyte, that was the death knell of the Japanese using the P.I. as a supply base. The whole Island chain could have basically been sidestepped, except for a promise a General made to the people.....I talked to many older Filipinos during my visits there, and one thing they remember most,of the War, is Gen. McArthur returning to the Country. It was a sign to them they had NOT be forgotten and helped increase the guerrilla operations against the Japanese tenfold. IMO it would have been a tough thing to bypass that promise and leave the Philippines at the mercy of the trapped Japanese forces. (And I am sure that would have cost more civilians their lives. According to what the Filipinos I talked to told me, the Japanese were getting downright cruel to the public. Gone were the days of "Asian Co-prosperity" and here were the days of every one is a Freedom Fighter and enemy. And the Public was beginning to pay, even after the US invasions.)
And I firmly believe the US was also garnering Allies for the Post-War world. With the Soviet Union and possibly China gaining power and influence in the area...the US was looking for a midway point in the Pacific to act as a "Watchpost" and a place to put the "Big Stick" if things went sour again. The Philippines fit this bill perfectly. They already were a Pre-War friend and ally, so why not liberate them and continue what we had before the Japanese got aggressive. Back in December of 1941, this idea had failed....but now we learned by that mistake, therefor we would not waste the opportunity again. (By looking at all the post war bases that were in the Philippines, this somewhat rings true to me. And I served during the Cold War from some of these bases. We had a very STRONG presence in the Far Pacific from these bases for many years of the Cold War)

[MAGNA]

From what you say it seems MacArthurs promise had far reaching consequences.

[Panzermacher]

Originally Posted by MAGNA

From what you say it seems MacArthurs promise had far reaching consequences.

It would seem as so. I was just making an educated guess, but, I think some decisions made during WW2 DID have far reaching ends. By the time the Philippines were invaded, Stalin was already "Carving up Europe" with no intension of letting what his armies took go free. I think the West seen this and made adjustments. (My Opinion here) McArthur has made his promise to return, and it had other benefits to it besides the promise.


But as far as the Palaus went.....that is a battle that has been argued by folks who study the PTO for decades.....I don't think the whole affair was worth the lives it cost both sides. It was a sideshow, no real reason for the Campaign that I and others can see.