Was blitzkrieg really that revolutionary?

[webmill]

Note, at the end of WWI, the development of Air reconnaissance cameras continued, an advantage the Germans intended to use;

From US Military Intelligence Service, Aug 10, 1942 on the Art of War effected by the Panzer and Motorised Arm.

"As soon as the breakthrough is effected, exploit it immediately with the Armored (Panzer) forces acting in close liason with air reconnaissance and the combat forces..."

"Assign them objectives in depth that will coincide as far as possible with the sensitive points indispensable to the material life of the enemy army ..important cross roads, regulating stations and depots of every kind..and insist on speed."

German Aerial reconnaissance depended on returning recon aircraft for development of their photographs over enemy territory; From this enemy airfields,among other targets, can be targeted with precision and surprise;

Thus German Air reconnaissance aircraft,and also( I believe a previous post by Cyberia mentions the advent of precision bombing to be included in Blitzkreig) ..Plus pinpoint STUKA divebombing techniques which allow the potential of a monplane's carry of a 500 lbs threshold bomb to be put on target ....along with the wireless communications enable a advanced Blitzkrieg doctrine; with an important blitzkreig objective to cut the communications of the enemy and when an enemy Headquaters could be located and threatened to move,rather than function, or be captured, destroyed or surrounded;

The Germans themselves relied on the mobile communications of a Command vehicle such as Pz Bef Wg 251 (halftrack) Funkwagon with its 40 mile range FuG8

"Simultaneously, have the entire effort of the aviation (German Air force here, including Reconnaissance aircraft) concentrated on the assembly areas of reserves and on vital points of the communications system used of the movement of reserves.

[cyberia]

It has been conceded that wireless radio was an important element, and aerial recon of you care to throw that into the mix as well.

However, these were still only cogs in the overall Blitzkrieg machine.

The deciding factor of Blitzkrieg's success, in my opinion, was the weaponry employed.

Opposing forces that crumbled in those onslaughts were not yelling out "Oh crap, they have radios". They were too busy fleeing Panzers, ducking Stukas and being overwhelmed by fast moving motorized infantry.

In other words, what made the operations so successful was the shock effect these weapons caused.

Large groups of opposing enemy forces, still capable of carrying on the fight, surrendered en mass because they felt they could not stand up to what was being thrown against them.

[MAGNA]

Originally Posted by cyberia

It has been conceded that wireless radio was an important element, and aerial recon of you care to throw that into the mix as well.

However, these were still only cogs in the overall Blitzkrieg machine.

The deciding factor of Blitzkrieg's success, in my opinion, was the weaponry employed.

Opposing forces that crumbled in those onslaughts were not yelling out "Oh crap, they have radios". They were too busy fleeing Panzers, ducking Stukas and being overwhelmed by fast moving motorized infantry.

In other words, what made the operations so successful was the shock effect these weapons caused.

Large groups of opposing enemy forces, still capable of carrying on the fight, surrendered en mass because they felt they could not stand up to what was being thrown against them.

That's the absolute crux of the whole concept. Even in the early war period when most german infantry was still on foot it worked. The shock factor came in due to the attacks from all directions. Aircraft from above coupled with armour from various directions - especially the rear - combined to give the impression there was no way out. For the man on the ground it would have looked like a hopeless situation.

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by MAGNA

That's the absolute crux of the whole concept. Even in the early war period when most german infantry was still on foot it worked. The shock factor came in due to the attacks from all directions. Aircraft from above coupled with armour from various directions - especially the rear - combined to give the impression there was no way out. For the man on the ground it would have looked like a hopeless situation.

Agreed, the original "Shock & Awe".

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by cyberia

Agreed, the original "Shock & Awe".

That's exactly what it was! It left the enemy afraid and confused, and thinking that the situation was far worse than what it was.

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by Jim O

That's exactly what it was! It left the enemy afraid and confused, and thinking that the situation was far worse than what it was.

Especially if you factor in that the common fighting man has no concept of the grand scope of things. Only what is happening right in his small area.

And that must have looked like all hell broken loose.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by cyberia

Especially if you factor in that the common fighting man has no concept of the grand scope of things. Only what is happening right in his small area.

Especially without radio...

[webmill]

Originally Posted by cyberia

Opposing forces that crumbled in those onslaughts were not yelling out "Oh crap, they have radios". They were too busy fleeing Panzers, ducking Stukas and being overwhelmed by fast moving motorized infantry.

In other words, what made the operations so successful was the shock effect these weapons caused.

Large groups of opposing enemy forces, still capable of carrying on the fight, surrendered en mass because they felt they could not stand up to what was being thrown against them.

When targets are identified, located,and then following afterwards with STUKA pinpoint divebombing and its 500 lb bomb threshold no enemy position is safe--not safe from surprise Air Attack as camoflage is neglected and provisions to quickly move the target not there and the enemy is caught. With the STUKA divebombing exploiting less effective AAA of the target
... a hold up to the 500 lb STUKA bomb, under Blitzkreig attack? except maybe the thick armored copula of a Maginot turret gun or a deep reinforced concrete bunker..but a 500lb bomb can have an AP tip put on it ..

And reliance on Me-109 fighter for Air Superiority-except for its bounce back and .5 greater attrition during the Battle of Britain.starting the Allies on its road to the defeat of the Luftwaffe

Advanced Blitzkreig doctrine of WWII needed Air Reconnaissance aircraft and Reconnaissance cameras that far surpassed those of WWI. As early as 1939 the Germans were working on the Hs 130 and its prototype Henschel 128 as a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft. In June 1943, although past the Blitzkreig success era of 1939,40,and 41, came the Jet bomber Air reconnaissance aircraft the Ar 234 Blitz. Higher Atitude ,faster, and greater range recon Aircraft (than WWI aircraft) were developed.
However as the Fw Uhu Owl Reconnaissance aircraft indicates, introduced in Aug 1941, the Germans previously to this had always worked on adaptations of higher faster and greater range bomber reconnaissance aircraft and used these-- especially in Barbarossa, I would put forward.

Now, how much more effective was high altitude or faster Reconnaissnace, than the closer to WWI recon aircraft effort of a slow lower altitude, short range He 6 recon mono plane in setting up a German airstrike ..as was developed in Spain by the Condor Legion for example..as compared to the original question of what was the greatest dimension of Blitzkreig..was it the wireless communications?

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by webmill

When targets are identified, located,and then following afterwards with STUKA pinpoint divebombing and its 500 lb bomb threshold no enemy position is safe--not safe from surprise Air Attack as camoflage is neglected and provisions to quickly move the target not there and the enemy is caught. With the STUKA divebombing exploiting less effective AAA of the target
... a hold up to the 500 lb STUKA bomb, under Blitzkreig attack? except maybe the thick armored copula of a Maginot turret gun or a deep reinforced concrete bunker..but a 500lb bomb can have an AP tip put on it ..

And reliance on Me-109 fighter for Air Superiority-except for its bounce back and .5 greater attrition during the Battle of Britain.starting the Allies on its road to the defeat of the Luftwaffe

Advanced Blitzkreig doctrine of WWII needed Air Reconnaissance aircraft and Reconnaissance cameras that far surpassed those of WWI. As early as 1939 the Germans were working on the Hs 130 and its prototype Henschel 128 as a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft. In June 1943, although past the Blitzkreig success era of 1939,40,and 41, came the Jet bomber Air reconnaissance aircraft the Ar 234 Blitz. Higher Atitude ,faster, and greater range recon Aircraft (than WWI aircraft) were developed.
However as the Fw Uhu Owl Reconnaissance aircraft indicates, introduced in Aug 1941, the Germans previously to this had always worked on adaptations of higher faster and greater range bomber reconnaissance aircraft and used these-- especially in Barbarossa, I would put forward.

You are confusing preparation of attack with attack.

Although recon was an important element in all planning phases, it was the shock value of the actual assault that had whole army groups laying down their arms.

[webmill]

Originally Posted by cyberia

You are confusing preparation of attack with attack.

Although recon was an important element in all planning phases, it was the shock value of the actual assault that had whole army groups laying down their arms.

I request an explanation by what you mean by "confusing preparation of attack with attack" I disagree with your assessment here on confusion ,but not your next statement, as it is viable as far as it goes..


Air Reconnaissance-assists importantly to increase the speed, and thus shock, of Blitzkreig in all phases;
Also I suggest a reread of my post on mobile communications and a blitzkreig goal of cutting the enemys communications; when all this works successfully, the shock of Panzer breakthrough and exploitation can be intensified with the Germans thwarting countermoves by the enemy. Unless the enemy is so weak he is incapable of reacting to any breakthrough in mass--which was sometimes the case.and ends up encircled.In this case the Panzer spearheads can wing it without Air recon,rely on Maps carried with and victory will still be achieved-with or without High Altitude Air Recon. But an unexpectedly weak or expected weak enemy, even if large numerically, by the Germans doesn't change the advancement of German Blitzkreig doctrine.

In Russias case, in the summer campaign the Russians did "lay down their arms" and " "shock"as you say, and could not stop being encircled, but the whole Russian war effort did not stop. the Russians believed Russian Space and war industry behind the Urals allow recovery from shock and continued on until they achieved an encirclement back on the German Army for victory at Stalingrad. In the meantime the Germans cannot backwards their Blitzkreig doctrine because of this .They must build on they have gotten done, including advanced Air Reconnaissance

Next in line was SPA the Wespe and Hummmel and self propelled halftrack Nebelwerfer artillery to keep up at a faster combat pace-- working in conjunction with heavier Panzers that are tank dueling more with improved enemy tanks--although the Blitzkreig era of success has now passed