Was blitzkrieg really that revolutionary?

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by Freightshaker

I like Hefewiesen and Robusto Uppmann's .

I'll smoke Robusto Uppmann's, but the choice of beer is open for debate.

[MAGNA]

Originally Posted by TRDG

Just a thought, maybe break down each factor as to relative importance to the overall "Blitz", one may be "missing" and "it" still could work, but if other pieces are gone, that might not be the case.....

Cheers, sorry for not being specific yet, I'm not that good , but I'm thinking on this topic!!

Tom

That's a really good idea. It does seem as though the later tactics used against the German forces in regard to defensive systems and aggressive patrolling certainly slowed their ability when it came to battlefield reconnaissance. the surprise factor could be lost due to this (shock value lowered). That is one possibility.

The other is the lower possibility of tank fright which was prevalent early on.

There must be more though.

[TRDG]

Thanks MAGNA

Lets see, start a list I think, I'm no expert, so I will let others post "items on the list" to get a more full view of the total components to this interesting subject, so feel free add in here. Once we seem to have a complete list, then someone can list them, then we can discuss each one til the ideas/concepts run out on that one, then go to the next on the list, sound good?

1. Combined arms put together in one place and around the same general timeframe for the Blitz effort.

[Freightshaker]

1. Combined arms put together in one place and around the same general timeframe for the Blitz effort.

2. Surprise. Catching the enemy with their pants down was essential. Preferably an undeclared war.

[MAGNA]

Number 1.Combined arms. An easy thing to say and a difficult one to implement. It seems as though it was certainly done a lot better than ever before.

Number 2. The undeclared war - certainly worked against Poland and the USSR.

3. Accurate tracking of enemy displacements. Use of air and ground reconnaissance in a fast moving advance. Accurate reports for placement of equipment at weak points and direction for air support against specific tactical targets.

[webmill]

4. firepower superiority in the important areas of engagement. This is, of course, can have combined operations involved, but parts of combined arms may be there to a lesser or greater degree. Firepower superiority may not be as gigantic as one might assume in Blitzkreig--all the time. If there isn't a large excess or overkill, then a margin above that causes the defeat of the defender anyway and in some cases regardless of--this would be especially true, I would put forward, if ammo supplies are not excessive, but instead stretched and limited; and therefore to be carefully used such as in battles of the Blitzkreig spearheads after the initial breakthrough or at the end of breakthrough; This often leaves it to the Panzer Grenadiers again and the German Pz Grenadiers often responded with innovation such as implementing a 81mm mortar in a 250 SdKfz halftrack, to provide immediate mortar SPA for the battle at hand

[McCoy]

Don't forget to add unexperienced n' unprepared enemy formations in the fray n' that fits well on the Blitzkrieg up 'til Moscov when the Russians finaly counterattacked.

[Freightshaker]

5. Communications (knew it was coming didn't you )- without commo, units would be unable to concentrate or respond to enemy actions in a timely manner.

[MAGNA]

Number 5 certainly comes in with number 3. Accurate reconnaissance is close to useless in a fast moving front if there is no ability to pass the information on quickly.

[Pirate-Drakk]

Originally Posted by webmill

4. firepower superiority in the important areas of engagement.

Tactics and Strategy are some of my favorite subjects so I've been meaning to get into this discussion but haven't had the time until now.

The key elements required for Blitzkrieg are mobility and communication. Communication facilitates the recon, and control to coordinate the fast paced dynamic battle that ensues.

All the Germans did was apply this concept to the WWII battlefield with the equipment at hand. They also had airpower which added a third dimension to the battlefield but did not change the Blitz concept.

The first to use the "Blitzkrieg" were the Mongols! Every Mongol warrior was mounted and mobile. Communication between the battle groups and proper recon was also facilitated by horses. Info from the recon patrols must be quickly transmitted to the commanders so they can coordinate the rapid advance.

The first phase of a Blitz is to recon the target area and find the preferred point of attack. In the days of the Mongols that was usually a large army protecting a city or in a protected city. The entire Mongol horde would converge into a "Schwerpunkt" and make the attack. Most of their opposing armies were conscripts and typically foot soldiers with few cavalry. The highly trained Mongols used their mobility advantage to literally run circles around the enemy, feigning retreats, luring the enemy into ambush, and using their speed advantage to keep the enemy in arrow range, but not close enough to toss a spear.

Once the objective army was destroyed, the Mongol army would split up into multiple components and lay waste to all the lightly defended rear areas. Fast recon would identify new targets of plunder (remember, they didn't even have a map as a guide in those days so recon was critical!) and the army groups would continue to bifurcate into smaller and smaller groups as they fanned out to conquer huge areas.

Ahead of their path someone would come yelling, "The Mongols are coming!" and a new army would be formed to resist them. Once the Mongol scouts identified this new threat, they would regroup into a single mass and repeat the process.

Somewhere I have a map of the Mongols moving through Russia doing exactly this pattern about 3 times as they moved across Asia and into Europe. It looks like a standing wave on a guitar string with nodes where the army is concentrated and then a widening fan, followed by a converging fan of cavalry. If I can find it, I'll try to scan it and post it.

For the Germans, radios were a huge advantage but not just for their tanks to communicate in a battle, but for the recon units to get data back to the commanders, and then for those commanders to coordinate their units for the next movement and attack. Airpower was an added bonus for the Germans, since it also facilitated recon and the ability to provide fire support over a wide area in a short period of time. The airplane is much more mobile then any ground unit so it is perfect for a Blitz.

If you read about J. C. Fullers "Plan 1919" it was all about the tanks busting a hole in the line and then ravaging the weak areas in the rear. They had air power to recon the trenches, mobility with the tanks, but poor communications. That's one reason the early tank assaults always stalled before achieving any great victory in WWI. The tanks would disperse behind the enemy line, but would never regroup to crush the upcoming enemy reinforcements. Instead, the individual tanks would be picked off one by one as they dispersed into isolated targets. They had no radios (they used carrier pigeons instead!) so the tanks couldn't call for air or artillery support and the infantry had nothing but feet to keep up with the attack.

Even in WWII, the Germans struggled to keep the army moving at the pace of the tanks which was a weakness of the German Blitzkrieg. The Mongols didn't have this problem. Like modern armies, every Mongol soldier had the same capacity for mobility and a mobile advantage on their enemy.

In my opinion, the Germans "reinvented" the Blitzkrieg in a modern form, from tried and true methods and principles demonstrated by the invincible Mongols in the distant past. A concentration of force, followed by a rapid advance and force dispersion, coupled with professional, mobile troops, using excellent communication abilities to optimize reconnaissance and coordination of the various battle elements.

Long live the Blitzkrieg!