The malmedy massacre

[Ingsoc]

Originally Posted by Klaus

Do you think, that the returning POW from the west were considered a threat to the communist ideology?

Noy exacly, they were treated badly because they surrender to the Germans.

[DDLDSDB]

The SS were top of the line.(professionals)They have,in my opinion,been given bad a rap. A lot of PC slander by the victors. There were atrocities on all sides. I am sure the quality of most combatants by that time may have suffered somewhat. The German armed forces were honorable and well disaplined for the most part.

[Ingsoc]

Originally Posted by DDLDSDB

The SS were top of the line.(professionals)They have,in my opinion,been given bad a rap. A lot of PC slander by the victors. There were atrocities on all sides. I am sure the quality of most combatants by that time may have suffered somewhat. The German armed forces were honorable and well disaplined for the most part.

Hardly, the SS was also responsible to the concentration camps (althought you maybe meant to the Waffen SS) it's true there were some atrocities by the allied however the big diffrent is that unlike with the Germans those atrocities didn't initiated by the highest political and militry leadership.

[DDLDSDB]

"it's true there were some atrocities by the allied however the big diffrent is that unlike with the Germans those atrocities didn't initiated by the highest political and militry leadership."

In the heat of battle,the spur of the moment,etc. these things happen. To say they were by orders from up high is not feasable.. The Allies however, were famous for such orders from up high. Dresden,Hamburg and so on down the numerous line.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by DDLDSDB

In the heat of battle,the spur of the moment,etc. these things happen. To say they were by orders from up high is not feasable.. The Allies however, were famous for such orders from up high. Dresden,Hamburg and so on down the numerous line.

You can argue that firebombing Tokyo and dropping atomic bombs were also "crimes" committed on orders from "higher up" but in fact those were strategic decisions made by the Allies as were the attack at Pearl Harbor and the bombings of London, Warsaw, and Moscow and are at least "arguable". Executions of prisoners, or orders such as the "Commissar Order"

...If captured during combat or while offering resistance, [these commissars] must on principle be shot immediately.... As for the others, the following rules shall apply: Even if they are only suspected of resistance, sabotage, or instigation thereto... protection granted to prisoners of war... will not apply to them. After having been segregated they are to be liquidated.

are very different.

[DDLDSDB]

Mmmmmm..... The 'commissar order' is different indeed Jim. But such was not the case with Malmedy or the numurous other occasions where all sides were guilty of executing prioners. It would seem that you agree with me even though it seems you don't. London and especially 'Pearl Harbor' are different. Pearl was a military objective. London,I beleive was at first a mistake. But just the same it was in response to British bombings of German cities first.

[Ingsoc]

Originally Posted by DDLDSDB

Mmmmmm..... The 'commissar order' is different indeed Jim. But such was not the case with Malmedy or the numurous other occasions where all sides were guilty of executing prioners. It would seem that you agree with me even though it seems you don't. London and especially 'Pearl Harbor' are different. Pearl was a military objective. London,I beleive was at first a mistake. But just the same it was in response to British bombings of German cities first.

On the contrary the comisar order is very relevant to this as it's give the (correct) feeling to the German soldiers that they can murder enemy POW and get away with this, so even if the Malmedy massacare wasn't ordered from the high ranks, their certinly set the mood for it.

[DDLDSDB]

Sorry. I just don't agree with that. Seems more of a prejudice attitude than factual. It was not a policy nor anything remotely associated with the 'regular conduct' by German soldiers.

[Ingsoc]

Originally Posted by DDLDSDB

Sorry. I just don't agree with that. Seems more of a prejudice attitude than factual. It was not a policy nor anything remotely associated with the 'regular conduct' by German soldiers.

It's just common sence, if at one point of the war the military and political leadership issued order that allow excecution of POW than it's probably have the following affect of the soldiers:

1. The idea of excecuting POW will not be considered such a vile thing.

2. They would know that if they will excecute POW on their own initiative they will probably will not be punished, after all how could they be when orders to do similar thing came from their leadership?

Of course it's doesn't meant that all German soldiers excecuted POW, it's just goes to show you that it's wasn't such an un-thinkable action to them.

[DDLDSDB]

Ok. This could go on and on. The old "agree to disagree" seems prevalent here.