The malmedy massacre

[Klaus]

A very good read.

http://www.historynet.com/wwii/blmassacreatmalmedy/

What are your thoughts? What happend on 17th December 1944?

[Jim O]

Excellent article Klaus. Thanks for the link. As for what really happened? Who really knows?

If I had to guess I would say that someone panicked and started shooting, perhaps as the author suggested during a small escape attempt and then that things got out of hand. Perhaps it was a spur of the moment idea. But the suggestion that it was pre-meditated is less likely for at least three reasons.

• First, this wasn't the "norm" for German behavior on the Western Front. Even on the Eastern Front they generally exploited the prisoners or let them die from exposure. Those that they outright executed they often believed to be communist party members/commisars or had some other political reason for doing so.
• Second, they didn't want retaliation should they become prisoners. Both the US and Germany were signatories to the Geneva Convention and they didn't want to jeopardize that or their people.
• Last, and perhaps most important, is by this time they had to know that the war was not going well for them and that the best they were going to do is create a stalemate and hold onto some semblance of the Reich. They were being closed in upon from all sides. Had they actually spent any time thinking about this, I don't think that they wanted to risk the death sentences that were ultimately handed down (though never carried out).

Again, thanks for a good read.

[Klaus]

thank you very much.

In your first point, the shooting of political personal, you are refering to Hitlers infamous "Kommisar-Befehl" (commisar-order) right?

I too believe that someone panicked. An american soldier maybe made a wrong move and the shooting started. And even an the SS must have known that they were loosing the war.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by Klaus

In your first point, the shooting of political personal, you are refering to Hitlers infamous "Kommisar-Befehl" (commisar-order) right?

Yes, that and there were later times when Soviet prisoners thought to be communist party officials were executed at the camps. I'll look some references.

[Klaus]

I found the original Kommisarbefehl. It si in german (of course) I'll try to translate the most important parts.

[Klaus]

Some Photos...



The american bodies

Lt. Col. Joachim Peiper on the witness stand, June 17, 1946.

Joachim Peipers Mug shot

Lt.Col. Joachim Peiper in uniform

[515]

There is a movie on this. Its called Saints and Soldiers. Probaly not to well know. Its an awesome movie. Talkes about a few soldiers who get away from the shooting and find a British pilot who was shot down and has vital information about the advancing German army. Good movie. I think you should all check it out if you can find it.

[Klaus]

I have seen it. Nicely made movie.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Jim O

Perhaps it was a spur of the moment idea. But the suggestion that it was pre-meditated is less likely for at least three reasons.

• First, this wasn't the "norm" for German behavior on the Western Front. Even on the Eastern Front they generally exploited the prisoners or let them die from exposure. Those that they outright executed they often believed to be communist party members/commisars or had some other political reason for doing so.

I would counter this by saying that by this time harsh treatment of any one captured by the SS was endemic.

The norm for SS behaviour was total ruthlesness. It started in 1940 with the murder of over 100 British Troops in the Dunkirk area and continued where ever the SS were present. Oradur sur Glane is another example that springs to mind in the West.

[Klaus]

Don't get me wrong: I don't say that the SS didn't murder them. But what exactly happend in Dunkirk?