Rommel in Command of the OStfront

[Panzermacher]

Wow...new territory adn I am the first!

HEre is my Burning Question......What if Erwin Rommel had risen to attain command of the ENTIRE Eastern Theatre....ie the Ost Front Campaign. What do all think could have been the results...? Would it have had the same outcome? Would Rommel have made a difference? Your Theories please....

[McCoy]

I don't think that it would have been any different as the commanders in place was able enough. Once the Russians started rollin' their steamer west there wasn't much the Germans could do.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by McCoy

I don't think that it would have been any different as the commanders in place was able enough. Once the Russians started rollin' their steamer west there wasn't much the Germans could do.

I agree. Once they failed to kick the Soviets out of Moscow in 1941 they pretty much had lost the war.* That, of course, had more to do with Hitler's wanting to grab more territory in the south and not seeing the psychological importance of taking Moscow (never mind its strategic importance as a rail hub) and forcing Stalin out of the Kremlin and into Asia (east of the Urals). Hitler didn't listen to the advice of the excellent Generals who were in command at that time and I doubt that he would have listened to Rommel. Holding Moscow was a psychological boost for the Russians. Had they had to go east of the Urals there might well have been an end to the war in the east. Whether Stalin liked it or not, his army may well have collapsed and the soldiers simply gone home.

*Yes, it's true that there was a somewhat successful summer offensive in 1942 but that ended up with a disaster at Stalingrad and never met its true objective of getting the oil that Germany needed. In the big picture however, that offensive probably never had a chance of dealing a knockout punch to the Soviets. In retrospect, as Hitler and his Generals knew, they had to win the war before winter.

[Panzermacher]

Ok....No changes says the Swede. I have to differ. Rommel only had about 5 German divs in Africa...and a smattering of Italian Divs. of differing quality. He turned Defeat into victory against the Allies til his supplies petered out. Now My theory in Russia, with 175 German divs at the outset and Scores of Foreign Divs added to that number....and Hitler's Ear......I think that by September of 41, he may have reached Moscow. I don't think Rommel would have suffered the supply troubles Guderian and the others suffered (HE was Hitler's Favorite, and Hitler at the time, would have done what ever he asked, I firmly believe) Rommel's only trouble, at this time...was he made some bigtime enemies in the Party. Martin Borman absolutely loathed him. And he was a bugbear to Himmler and the SS crowd. This May have had some detrimental effects on the campaign, but not enough to at least get to Moscow before winter.

Rommel's tactics were along a differing line than Guderian's. Rommel learned fast how to adapt to new terrain. Rommel knew where to put his panzer's for the knockout punches. He was a wizard at deception. (The "Steppe Fox"??) I think Rommel would have been savvy enough to use Stalin's enemies (Those from within HIS OWN country) to a better advantage, rather than rounding em up and shipping em back to Germany as slaves. (He did have Hitler's ear, and he didn't like the party, or what it was doing) This is all conjecture here on my part....but I have studied many books on Rommel's life to have a grasp of the man. He was a gentleman from a time past. He treated his prisoners as such, men who could not fight or resist any longer and have Honorably gave themselves up. He wasn't wild about shooting prisoners or into the "Final Solution" I feel this would have played into his conduct in Russia. And using Stalin's own Countrymen against him as a manpower source would have been a great asset. (Note: I say this according to many books I have read on the subject of Stalin's regime, and those who disliked it. Many Russian, Ukrainians, Byeloruses,etc had a beef against what the Communist party had done to them....ie creation of State Farms....Food Rationing.. Forced Conscription during the "Winter War"..Party promises that never came through....and the list goes on. Some DID take up arms against the State, before the German Invasion. They paid with their lives, or went into the Gulag system to wither and die. But many more said in their own words, had they been given the opportunity by the Axis, they would have fought the Stalinites.)
Due to Rommel's experiances in the Carpathian Mountains during WW1, I think he would have had a handle on the Winter situation in Russia. He would have some inkling as to what was to come and would have known about the trials of Winter combat, adn prepared for it before the fact. HE also would have known that to win the Ostfront, Moscow would have HAD to be taken before winter fell in full fury. Moscow's loss, may not have knocked the Soviets out of the war, but it sure would have had an effect on WORLD moral at the time...( Imagine a New York Times Headline....on Sept. 21st 1941, "Moscow Falls Into German Hands! Soviet Leadership forced to flee the Capital!")
Now holding that Capital would have been another story, I am sure some brutal Soviet Attacks would be forthcoming as soon as it was Winter. But I think our old "Steppe Fox" would have been a little more prepared. As the Victories Tallied up, and now he hands a Megalomaniac like Hitler the Golden Apple of Moscow.......I think our "Steppe Fox" would be in a prime position to get the most and the best of what he asked for...ponder it....


I agree the Total Outcome of the whole campaign may have ended in the same way....Soviet Eventual victory. (A Country of 80 million people or so, can NOT take on the whole of the World without pulling off something absolutely brilliant. Hitler was not that brilliant or things like Tiger IIs and Me 262s would have already been in action by 42.)

My contention is....How would the front have been different. Would Rommel have pulled off a Daring Run to Moscow? Would Stalingrad, Cherkassy, Kursk, and many other Major German Losses been allowed? Sure every Army loses....Rommel lost at Tobruk, and El Alamein. But how....would things have been different?

[Jim O]

You assume that Rommel would have had control of the rear and that is not likely. That was given over to the security forces (read goons), not fighting men. Civilian roundups and murders would still have occurred and nothing Rommel could have said or done would have prevented it. Same thing with POW's. There was simply no food to feed them. They would have been worked to death. USSR was not a party to the Geneva Convention and Stalin considered POW's to be traitors.

I guess we disagree on whether Rommel would have been able to convince Hitler of what other fine Generals could not. I think not. The vote may have been 15-1 for taking Moscow, but the only vote was the one cast by Hitler. Of course we will never know...

[Freightshaker]

Rommel's habit of 'rushing to the front' would've been catastrophic. Who's to say he would but judging from past experience he would have. In Africa his HQ would lose contact with him and they would be left up to their own ideas or guesses as to his intent, he even was almost captured at one point.

I'm in the camp with those that think he was a great divisional commander, an average corps commander and out of his depth in anything above that. Besides being overshadowed by better commanders, he tended to become physically
ill by overwork and stress.

The audacity that was successful in France and North Africa would not have been repeated in Russia, especially after mid 43' when Russian operational art started to overshadow Germany.

[lufttiger]

First Great post PM, i love this stuff. I think kinda like the others tho, that the only way he could of made a diff is if Hitler bowed out & gave him complete control. But then the other Generals might have been able to do the same with that control?? don't know?

[Freightshaker]

Hitler was his biggest proponent (besides himself) so that might've helped with that situation. Consider Manstein in Winter 42'-43' and his pull out of AGS.

[Panzermacher]

I truly love this.....Last time I posed all this, I took a royal beating, with whips and chains....

FS I think Rommel would have adapted well to Theatre Commander with no problems. He was a very adaptable man and commander. Yeah, he had a bad habit of rushing up and doing his own recon. And yes he almost got shot down and captured more than a few times, but this is a double edged sword. He may have been away from contact with his Command.....but he had the "Best seat in the house" for many battles. (personally, I would rather see my Front Commander take an active interest in what was going down, and have a better idea of how to react in situations, then have him in a comfy command wagon MILES from the action deciding from a map and sketchy reports.)

Granted, Rommel would NOT have had control over his rear areas. Yet again, given some of the powers he had with "Der Fuhrer", I think complaints would have quelled it to a point. (Maybe not enough to stop the Einsatz groups, but at least they would had to walk a little softer....IMO.)

Hitler would probably have not bowed out of the Command aspect....but Hitler DID listen to Rommel more so than other Generals and Marshals. (Sounds strange, I know, but Even in Rommel's own Memoirs he mentioned the fact that Hitler gave him more free rein then the other Commanders. But yet again, The "Fox" gave results. And being Hitler's Favorite and pet had it's advantage to a point. ( Yet Again, a double edged sword, it ALSO can get him dead!))

[MAGNA]

Hitler would have listened to Rommel until it didn't suit him anymore. Freightshakers summation is a good pointer to Rommel's ability level. Full command in the East would have been too much for him. At a lower level - say commanding a few divisions under the direction of Guderian - different story. Hitlers ordering of units from one front to another in the initial invasion may not have happened. Rommel and Guderian together would have been pushing forward a lot harder and shifting of fronts may not have been possible. Who knows?