What if Japan had never attacked Pearl Harbor?

[Jim O]

Would the US have been dragged into the war in Europe, when, and how?

Follow up: how would this have affected the outcome including the east-west demarcation?

[salinator]

Originally Posted by Jim O

Would the US have been dragged into the war in Europe, when, and how?

As much as some suspect the Japanese attack to allow US entry into a war that involved Germany, the Germans were just as anxious to entend war to America. It was no secret that America supported Britain and would continue to support her. The first happy time of of the U-boats was over, and fully laden U-Boats departed by 18 December 1941 toward the US eastern seaboard for Operation Paukenschlag. Hitler declared war on US 11 December 1941, the U-Boat arm at least seemed to have been planning a war with the US for some time prior be able to implement a plan at such a short notice.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by salinator

As much as some suspect the Japanese attack to allow US entry into a war that involved Germany, the Germans were just as anxious to entend war to America. It was no secret that America supported Britain and would continue to support her. The first happy time of of the U-boats was over, and fully laden U-Boats departed by 18 December 1941 toward the US eastern seaboard for Operation Paukenschlag. Hitler declared war on US 11 December 1941, the U-Boat arm at least seemed to have been planning a war with the US for some time prior be able to implement a plan at such a short notice.

There's no question about what you say, but Hitler's declaration was what brought the US into a declared war in Europe.

Would U-Boat activity alone have aroused enough feeling in the US so as to abandon its policy of staying out of the war?

If so, when US would have joined the war directly? Do you believe Hitler's unilateral December 11, 1941 declaration of war was planned and would have happened anyway? If the former, how long would the delay have been and what would the effect have been?

[salinator]

Originally Posted by Jim O

There's no question about what you say, but Hitler's declaration was what brought the US into a declared war in Europe.

Hitler's declaration of war was just the final formality. Britain was already bankrupted and was able to fight on with US financing. The last negotiable British asset was $142 Million in gold that the USS Louisville picked up from Simontown, South Africa in 1939. From that moment on, Britain fought on with finance from the United States.

Would U-Boat activity alone have aroused enough feeling in the US so as to abandon its policy of staying out of the war?

U-boat activity paved the way for American entry into the war in 1917, IMO there is no reason to think that it would not have escalated the same way in 1942. At what point would the Germans tire of ships being escorted by US warships? Or being shadowed by American planes? Or fight against equipment and weapons built and paid for by America?

If so, when US would have joined the war directly?

Yes. It was a matter of time. and when Hitler declared war, Roosevelt and Winnie probably did backflips.

Do you believe Hitler's unilateral December 11, 1941 declaration of war was planned and would have happened anyway?

It was not quite unilateral, as Italy also declared war against the US on the same day. And the next day, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia also declared war against the United States. 14 December Croatia declared war against the US, and 17 December Albania did the same.

If the former, how long would the delay have been and what would the effect have been?

If not for Pearl Harbor and the declaration of war by Hitler, 1942 would have been a challenge year for America to remain "neutral". It is no surprise that America chose a "Europe first" attitude even thought it was Japan that woke up the sleeping giant.

[TRDG]

The first thought for me was Operation Torch, now that would have been affected, if war was not declared at that point in time.........

Cheers

Tom

[Roddoss72]

Salutations All

To add my two cents worth.

This is hard, Japan does not attack Hawaii, well from this point of view if the Japanese had not attacked Hawaii and other US Territories (Philipines) it would be hard for the US Government to garner support from the average joe on the street just to give a damn of what the Japanese were doing in China, send advisers and a small volunteer force of mercenaries like the Flying Tigers is something that the US get away with, but full scale military deployment and a declaration of war on Japan. This means that the USA would have to be the one to strike first

Again this could also relate to Europe.

Regards

Roddoss72