Operation Sealion

[Freightshaker]

Originally Posted by Commander Waffle

I'm tryign to turn it into a "What would you do" instead of a "Could they/Duke" thread. I learn from his mistakes.

What would I do? Increase support for the U-boat war and starve them out. The Battle of the Atlantic is probably the most important battle of the war.

[Wustenfuchs]

Originally Posted by salinator

But it was the Kriegsmarine air arm that had those torpedos, not the Luftwaffe. The Kriegsmarine had maybe at the most 2 dozen floatplanes, mostly He-115s, and going against Spitfires and Hurricanes is sheer madness.

It was not until December 1941 that the Luftwaffe was finally given go ahead in air-to-surface torpedo research and development.

You are 100% correct Sal. I thought you were saying the Germans didn't have an aerial torpedo at all in time for "Sealion". The thing that strikes me most is the uncooperation of the different arms of the Reich. I think this was a major cause of their defeat.

[Commander Waffle]

Originally Posted by MAGNA

OK Trev, assuming I have no choice in the matter and the invasion is going ahead anyway......

1. Use whichever air assets available - perhaps from Norway - to bolster a concerted campaign against the Royal Navy - Particularly mine drops and bombing missions against not only shipping but against the major ports to slow traffic and disrupt operations.

2. Use other air assets to constantly harass troops and guns around the projected landing areas, while also destroying as much of the transport system to these areas as possible.

3. Use U-Boats to land and recce projected landing areas. Also to access approaches (mines etc.).

4. Ensure production factories - particularly aircraft - are kept disrupted if necessary (lots of recon).

5. Use paratroops to link up with armoured units so there is no waiting for infantry to catch up before getting inland. This will ensure a quick deepening of invasion salients.

6. Place usable airfields as a priority to get more troops in quickly without having to run a sea gauntlet.

7. Harbour facilities may not be taken quickly so motorised units must be landed first with enough supplies for two weeks action (no I don't know how much this would be in tonnage but I suspect a fair bit).

8. Cities and large built up towns are to be cut off from the outside where possible without getting involved in house to house fighting. This is an absolute must as being drawn in to this kind of operation will take to many resources. Cities can be taken by cutting off supplies and access rather than brute force.

Other than that, I don't have any more at the moment.

Great example of what I meant! Thanks MAGNA! Sounds like a good way to go. The only probnlem can see if that there are no usable airstrips or paratroopers getting torn to pieces before the armor catches up.

[MAGNA]

That is a big danger. I don't know enough about the geography there but I would assume you would have to pick your targets very carefully as far as distance to air landing spots is concerned.

You would need to throw in a very large dose of luck and audacity.

The other point Wustenfuchs made about the lack of cooperation would have to be remedied in no uncertain terms for any chance overall.

[Panzermacher]

In all seriousness, if I was forced to command this operation.....knowing how powerful the RN was at the time....and how tenacious the RAF was, I would automatically plan for failure. (Ie Have my capsule of cyanide, and my Luger real handy) In 1941 to 1943 I don;t believe the German Forces capable of such an endeavor with out a LOT of Luck and Pluck!

And even if I was able to pull off the landings, smash up the RN with U-boats and torpedoes, chase off the RAF with my fighters.....supply problems and the British People's resistance would dog me til the end of the operation.

Just don't see no feasible way to do this...even with ALL resources available. Germany wasn't on "Total War" footing til '43, and by then the British Isles were so full of Allied troops....it would have been suicide to plan Sealion at that time!

And... with Barbarossa drawing in the majority of German manpower and resources, Sealion would have become a sideshow.....no real importance to the whole out come, and a waste of Men and material. (like N. Africa)

[PatBC]

For a what If scenario

If (HUGE IF's) the US and the USSR stayed out of the war. Germany could have out produced the commonwealth and launched a successful invasion in 42 or 43 I think. However they need those huge IF's. Also they need to get serious about their production in 1940. Full industrial mobilization with Sealion as a goal.

I think even then it would be risky.

An RN battleships sunk in shallow water would close an invasion beach.

I have never seen any mention of the RN sub fleet in a sealion thread, which consisted of 60 mostly modern subs in 1939.

[MAGNA]

60 submarines ? Were they spread around the world or were most close to home ? It puts a different perspective on things if they were available to block both ends of the channel.

[PatBC]

There were some in other parts of the world but mostly in the Med and North Sea, as never as I can tell. A tug pulling a barge is a easy target for a sub. Do not know how good the German ASW was but I suspect it was not as good as the British.

[MAGNA]

You're right there. A nasty little complication and one to be considered if larger ships are to be used in support.

[Roddoss72]

Salutations All

Just to add my two cents worth.

Timing is the key, when, where and how.

When?. I would say if it had been up to me, at least four weeks after the BEF evacuation, this takes advantage of the lack resources and disorganisation within the British defense forces (especially the Army and RAF).

Where?. South East Britain, The County of Kent it is the shortest route and the most easily defendable with long range artillery, and mine corridors, due to it's compactness it is difficult for the RN to deploy it's heavy units, but that also goes for the KM.

How?. That is a tough one to answer so i'll ponder this a bit more and come up wuith a senario.

Regards

Roddoss72