Operation Sealion

[TRDG]

Nice ideas there R72!!

Cheers, keep em coming.

Tom

[Roddoss72]

Originally Posted by TRDG

Nice ideas there R72!!

Cheers, keep em coming.

Tom

Salutations TRDG

I am running a serial called Oran/MSK the British Debarcle.

It is a day to day account of a hypothetical German invasion of Britain.

But i'll try and come up with an alternate senario for this thread.

Regards

Roddoss72

[TRDG]

Roger that, I'm curious to see what you come up with.

Cheers

Tom

[Aussie Dave]

Originally Posted by Wustenfuchs

You are 100% correct Sal. I thought you were saying the Germans didn't have an aerial torpedo at all in time for "Sealion". The thing that strikes me most is the uncooperation of the different arms of the Reich. I think this was a major cause of their defeat.

True and Hitler helped the British and her Allies as well.

It was Hitler himself that pushed the early german development of Jet-Engined A/C to the back burners and he also in the BoB directed the german bombers away from the RAF bases onto London when he had British Fighter Command almost on its knees.

Big mistakes both, but the British fighters in 1940 would have been virtually sitting ducks going up against something like the Me-262 or the like.

It would have been the Luftwaffe that dominated the sky over the English Chanel and over much of britain's soil if they had done.

Also with no real fighter cover the RN would have to pulled back out of range or face constant unchallenged attacks on her fleet by the Luftwaffe.


Cheers,
Dave


Now lets hope the Duke of Spam doesn't Google "Operation Sealion" and find this thread.
(Oh Damn It!!!.... I said its name.)

[PatBC]

The Japanese Army and Navy did not get along together either

[Aussie Dave]

Originally Posted by PatBC

The Japanese Army and Navy did not get along together either

Thats for sure Pat.

Cheers,
Dave

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by MAGNA

60 submarines ? Were they spread around the world or were most close to home ? It puts a different perspective on things if they were available to block both ends of the channel.

As of June 10, 1940 the submarines in home waters were:
HOME FLEET
2nd Submarine Flotilla
TAKU, TETRARCH, TRIAD, TRIBUNE, TRITON, TRIUMPH, TRUANT, ORZEL, ILK

3rd Submarine Flotilla
H.34, H.44, H.49, H.50, SALMON, SEALION, SEAWOLF, SHARK,SNAPPER, SUNFISH

6th Submarine Flotilla
H.28, H.31, NARWHAL, PORPOISE, SPEARFISH, STURGEON, SWORDFISH, URSULA

9th Submarine Flotilla
CLYDE, L.23, L.26, SEVERN, THAMES, O.13

5th Submarine Flotilla –
CACHALOT, H.32, H.33, H.43, L.27, OBERON, OTWAY, O.9, O.10

source: Royal Navy Ships 10 June 1940

[Foerunado]

If the Germans kept thier treaty with the USSR and sued for peace with Britain, America would not be involved in the war, providing the Brits bought the ruse, this in turn would buy the Germans ample time to prepare for Sealion even years into the future. Also, Germany would have to sell this to the Americans, who as we all know at the outbreak were in no position to join the fight. If all of this goes the way of Germany's plan the invasion had better be quick and must be from the air. An amphibious assault would be suicide accross the channel due to inadequde landing beaches and the good ones are so far from the French coast. An ariel assault, preceeded by heavy bombing, given a few years Germany should have developed a heavy bomber, and a massive fighter escort, troops could be landed and not parachuted in. A landing in the Salisbury Plain would give you access to the deep water ports of Bristol on the west and Portsmouth and Southampton on the south. This is also miles away from London given the British army and airforce will be battling back the landings this leaves London underprotected from heavy bombardmant and possible second landings on the eastern coasts, perhaps launched from Holland towards Norfolk or Suffolk, just to the north of London.

I realize simultanius invasions of Britain to be a strech, but i feel given enough time and preparation it could work.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by Foerunado

If the Germans kept their treaty with the USSR and sued for peace with Britain, America would not be involved in the war, providing the Brits bought the ruse, this in turn would buy the Germans ample time to prepare for Sealion even years into the future.

Was anyone buying Hitler's brand of snake oil by this time?

Also, Germany would have to sell this to the Americans, who as we all know at the outbreak were in no position to join the fight. If all of this goes the way of Germany's plan the invasion had better be quick and must be from the air. An amphibious assault would be suicide across the channel due to inadequate landing beaches and the good ones are so far from the French coast. An aerial assault, preceded by heavy bombing, given a few years Germany should have developed a heavy bomber, and a massive fighter escort, troops could be landed and not parachuted in.

Which is it, quick, or in a few years. The British and Commonwealth were building up men, ships and aircraft at a rate much greater than were the Germans. Heck, even during the battle of Britain troops and planes were being dispatched to the Middle East; hardly an indication of a country that felt the homeland was teetering on the brink.

A landing in the Salisbury Plain would give you access to the deep water ports of Bristol on the west and Portsmouth and Southampton on the south.

Well Southampton is "only" 25 air miles from Salisbury, Bristol is about 45 air ,miles. This is not a secure logistical distance to cover. Your plan may be troubled by the fact that Salisbury Plain is the largest training area for the British forces in the UK. There may be some resistance from those forces. [/sarc]

This is also miles away from London given the British army and airforce will be battling back the landings this leaves London under protected from heavy bombardment and possible second landings on the eastern coasts, perhaps launched from Holland towards Norfolk or Suffolk, just to the north of London.

I realize simultaneous invasions of Britain to be a stretch, but i feel given enough time and preparation it could work.

By ignoring one of the prime dictums of warfare; concentration of force?

[Foerunado]

Since England was last successfully invaded in 1688 I think its fair to say that your prime dictums of warfare dont work in every situation and it might be high time to think outside the box. This is only a what if for discussion purposes only, I think its safe to say that it would have been impossible for the Germans to pull it off regardless. What, if any, ideas do you have? Or are you going to spend all of your posts telling other people how thier ideas wont work? Lets hear how you would do it and we can discuss this further.