Was Hitler Crazy

[Commander Waffle]

Hehe would have liked to asked Hitler himslef!

Eh..Herr Hitler..er...Mein Furher..bist du crazy?

WAS?

Hehe, tusch!

[lufttiger]

Thats the best explaination yet that i've heard Cy!

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by lufttiger

Thats the best explaination yet that i've heard Cy!

Thanks, LT. I only wish these old timers had been around later in my life when I had the means and insight to capture their views on video. It not only would have made a fascinating documentary, but given us all clues to what to watch out for in the future.

The problem with people like Hitler is, there is always a chance another somewhere will rear it's head.

[MAGNA]

Cyberia is right with this one. Hitler was definitely a gambler in the political sense with ingrained ideas on what responses would come from each country according to his preconceived notions (usually by race - if we invade Poland the French will do this and the British will do that). As anyone who runs a casino will tell you, eventually a gambler starts to lose.

The recollections of people who were in germany at those times is very pertinent too. I know some people who moved here to Australia after the war. As Cyberia said, the time slice determines what people thought of Hitler. One of these people told me they thought Hitler was a saviour during the thirties. They were given food hampers and a car at one stage. By mid war the view of Hitler changed dramatically but it was too late by then.

[cyberia]

All leaders, present and future and regardless of nation, need to viewed with skeptisim. Less we all go down that terrible road again.

[PanzerBob]

Originally Posted by cyberia

All leaders, present and future and regardless of nation, need to viewed with skepticism. Less we all go down that terrible road again.

Certainly wise words and if people like Hitler have done humanity any favours it would be they've set the standard of where evil lies.

Certainly some great opinions and insights put forth. For a little more, when I lived in Germany in the 70's several times I got glimpses into the thoughts of some Germans who still thought well of Hitler.

Once my buddies and I walked into a Gasthaus were there was a celebration of sorts, of Hitler birthday in progress, after they understood we didn't care (we were teens on a Beer Run), over a few beer, several of the them started to talk to us. They were Waffen SS members, they knew their gathering was illegal. They believed that Hitler had been Germany's savior and at some point he started to loose touch with reality, (something these guys clearly blamed on the drugs his so called Doctor kept him on.) Now clearly they were trying to convince us of Hitlers merits or maybe even themselves but somethings they said like the latter still rang true over my years focused on WWII.

They were SS veterans and as I recall of this incident, didn't seem to care for the Germany of those days (the 70's). Guest workers were a big beef with them, a sentiment many Germans had in those times. I had heard on more than one occasion if Hitler was here this (the Guest Worker program) wouldn't have happened.

These types of Revelations always seemed to be older Germans who had been in the war. My feeling has always been that these people were not bad folks, it's just the longing for a perceived better time, as our folks may pine for the 50's. Some how it had gone so wrong......Funny now I think of it I never did hear any Germans say anything against Hitler. The Youth of those days had no interest or expressed opinion of the Nazi Era, least wise that I ever heard. It was their parents problem was standard answer if asked.

Now bearing in mind the criteria for crazy, I believe Hitler's hold on reality began to falter when Barbarossa started to unravel at the gates of Moscow. The first real clues of it was his growing meddling in the plans of his Generals and the orders for positions and cities to be held to the death where the icing on the cake for me. I also believe he was a psychopath by modern definition which likely did not help his slide towards Never-never Land with a "healthy" push by his personal Doctor who was most accounts a quack.

[cyberia]

Excellent post, Bob. I have heard such stories before and I believe you are right. Perception of better times is no doubt the basis of such feelings.

My cousin from Munich was visiting ten or so years ago when he told me this story.

A production company in the 1970s was filming in the area for a movie on Hitler. The main actor bore a striking resemblance to Adolf Hitler. I want to say it might have been Alert Finny, but I'm not sure.

My cousin, like many other locals gathered to watch to filming. As the actor/Hitler was walking down a street to arrive on the set, and elderly man with a missing leg called out to him. With tears flowing down his face this man fell to ground in front of the actor, tugged at his pants cuff and pulled out from a pocket several medals he had won in the war to show them.

Of course, this man was obviously unable to reason out this actor could not have been Hitler. Still, in his mind at that moment there was no doubt, and his demonstration was both touching and disturbing at the same time.

My guess would be selective memory is just that. Selective.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by cyberia

...selective memory is just that. Selective.

One's mind does a great job of "editing". My memories of college years were drinking and parties and concerts and girls, not cramming and papers and lab reports.

Great post Bob. The men that you speak of have gone through a terrible trauma of losing a war in which they fought for a country that they dearly loved. They have edited out the bad parts and remembered the glory. It's a survival mechanism. Perhaps if you had reminded them that the racial laws that Hitler pushed were passed long before the war started, and long before his serious drug problems began, they might have remembered things differently. Perhaps the Commissar Order, which was not questioned by most Waffen SS units should also have been a clue that this was not a "good" man. To me there are too many examples like that, nevermind what happened later on, to see much good in the man. In the end, he chose his doctor, and he chose to follow his advice, . He made the decisions that led to the split of Germany for 45 years, and her substantial loss of territory and prestige.

[MAGNA]

I suppose we all gain impressions of past leaders through personal effects. We also gain much of our opinions from those older than us who lived through those times. My Mother has a different impression of Hitler as she was in her early teens during the war and Hitler was the face of the enemy to her. Newsreels and mainly radio broadcasts were her 'opinion' formers so she sees him as a madman.

[PanzerBob]

Thanks for the feedback. I do understand now many years later where these men were coming from. In time I met them we were just happy not to be tossed out., which until the bartender asked if we were bothered by the flags and such, and we said no, was looking likely to happen. In those days I was very apolitical maybe with a bent to the right.

In reflection yes they were broken soldiers, trying for a moment to capture a false glory long and rightfully lost. I think the part of this encounter which has always made me remember it, was they sincerely believed in what they were and did. I do recall these guys scared us and we had several beers not to look in a hurry and got out of there. I think it was this moment that caused me to begin to understand what our forefathers were really up against. Up to this point the 3rd Reich and Germany which I was living seemed disconnected, the final realization was the trip to DACHAU later that summer. Even then it was something that didn't have the impression is does now.

I also in no way wanted to elude that I believed Hitler Doctors' treatment gives Hitler or his minions an excuse for his and the Third Reich's actions.
My encounter with the SS came back to me when I was thinking about my response to whether and when did Hitler truly lose it.

As an additional observation on Hitler's side into insanity, one has wonder if his minions hung on for the ride so to speak because they couldn't admit to themselves that they had made such an insane error hitching their lives and their countries future to the coattails of a madman.