Was Hitler Crazy

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

...one has wonder if his minions hung on for the ride so to speak because they couldn't admit to themselves that they had made such an insane error hitching their lives and their countries future to the coattails of a madman.

Another excellent point, and probably many had such feelings.

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

...the final realization was the trip to DACHAU later that summer. Even then it was something that didn't have the impression is does now.

I visited Dachau as well in 1972. I felt the initial shock and numbness I think everyone feels when they pass through those gates. It took years however for my mind to connect all dots between what I saw there and what I now know for a picture to finally emerge.

It was possible for a small group to convince a large nation in the rightfulness of waging total war, yet manage to hide from the greater view the hideous evil behind it all.

This is why I think selective memory is so prevalent for that generation. So many of these people honestly thought they were fighting the good fight, to end up losing the war, and then have the reality of Holocaust suddenly placed in front of them. It had to be the ultimate kick in the teeth.

As someone who is very proud of his German heritage, and equally proud of my entire family who fought honorably for the Reich, I myself have had a hard time dealing with this fact.

How could a people, my people, who produced a Beethoven and Brahms, also produce a Hitler and Himmler?

I have to be honest here. If I had to deal with the fact that I played an indirect role in what happened, my memory might be selective as well. Otherwise I might not be able to live with myself.

[PanzerBob]

Originally Posted by cyberia

How could a people, my people, who produced a Beethoven and Brahms, also produce a Hitler and Himmler?

I have to be honest here. If I had to deal with the fact that I played an indirect role in what happened, my memory might be selective as well. Otherwise I might not be able to live with myself.

I hope not to be falling to far off the track of this thread, but your comments remind me of my own demons I still fight over the insanity of Rwanda. As I found over years of therapy amongst the many things warped in my head was extreme guilt over the lack of world response to what would become a genocidal nightmare. It makes no sense to many but they never saw the aftermath of the Newsbytes ignored by the world. I was told I was affected thus because I'm an empathic person, I cared too much. Well, Cyberia I have made one conclusion on that, empathy is not a bad thing, many more of humanity need to develop it, then maybe we will not ignore the Hitler's or Pol Pot's of the world and their evil minions.

I thought that this would stop interest in the study of warfare, but sometimes now I gain solace from my studies into how these things can happen. I have come to the conclusion that while we as human like to hold single individuals responsible for the tragic events that happens, it still takes many others to make them happen. This not only includes the direct perpetrators, but those who talk about it endlessly but do nothing especially when it's well within their means. This is why I actually more believe than wonder about my own statement:

one has wonder if his minions hung on for the ride so to speak because they couldn't admit to themselves that they had made such an insane error hitching their lives and their countries future to the coattails of a madman.

Politics based on hate, may have leaders and those leaders seem to historically to have something about them that is unhinged, but why is it we fail to see or believe when the madness spreads to the group and becomes national policy. These groups rarely have the noted Artists and Great Teachers in them, (these people become targets themselves) but they do have the thugs that every society seems have, only now with unchecked power. Again here, Cyberia it has not just been the German people affected thusly, other society's our past and present have managed such horrible feats on various scales and it seems to continue, Rwanda, Cambodia, North Korea, Iraq, Argentina I could go on. Was Hitler crazy, Yes, but many went crazy with him and this situation seems to be a common thread in society's that have gone horribly wrong, and will keep going wrong.

[cyberia]

Outstanding post, Bob. About the only thing I would disagree with is your concern the discussion is going off track.

I think when we discuss Hitler's insanity, similar situations in history become equally relevant. That is to say we are not discussing one man's imbalance, but the phenomenon of a parade of such men and the horrific evil they have brought to our world.

Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin... Just a few names on a long list. Auschwitz, Rwanda, Wounded Knee... just a few of the many places where innocent lives were snuffed out in the name of racial purity, ethnic cleansing and manifest destiny.

Your point on empathy is well taken. Apathetic bystanders may not have sown the seeds of the killing fields, but neither did they try and stop the harvest before it was too late.

Only our collective understanding what led to these crimes will help us to see them when we need to most. In the beginning, before it is too late.

As an example, consider the parallel between the majority of German people of the 1930s and many Americans in the period of Jim Crow south. Both groups bore witness to racial and religious persecution and segregation with an indifference. They may not have agreed, they may not have liked it, but many simply turned their backs feeling, "its not my problem".

The difference was in the United States over time those who opposed the injustices were able to speak out against it, and start a long and difficult road to bringing about change. In Germany those who did stand up against early nazi oppression were beaten, threatened, and eventually jailed or executed.
As a result, the road to hell was firmly paved outside the doorstep of every German home before the majority could see it for what it was.

The common denominator to these outbreaks of insanity is they all start the same way, when a group of people become singled out because of how they look, or sound, or worship. And the rest of us, or too many of us, turn our backs and think in the critical time we could stop it early, that it is not our problem.

You are right, Bob. Empathy is a good thing. An important thing. It makes us human.

[PanzerBob]

Thanks Cyberia, your responce is on the money IMHO.

[cyberia]

And thank you, Bob. Been too long since you and I have hashed issues such as these.

[PanzerBob]

Much nicer without the static build up

[cyberia]

We use "Static Guard" here.

[Jim O]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

Much nicer without the static build up

Originally Posted by cyberia

We use "Static Guard" here.

You mean that you're entitled to be a German-"something" and have an opinion that still counts?

[cyberia]

Originally Posted by Jim O

You mean that you're entitled to be a German-"something" and have an opinion that still counts?

Not only that, but I can now honestly speak my mind without losing my head!

Freedom of speech, what a concept!:smile: