Bormann--a spy?

[joyarjun1]

Great info on das Leck, Hagen. I wasn't even aware of the mysterious lady. Please give us some more, if possible.

Re Gehlen citing proof of Bormann having been a Soviet agent, I can't recall if he cites any--probably not. I read his memoirs long ago but I am sure I was interested in his source. So far as I can recall, he treated the matter in a few lines and in an offhand fashion, leaving authenticity hanging in the air!

[Hagen]

If you've seen the movie "Der Untergang" there's a point in the movie where Eva Braun is writing a farewell letter to her sister Gretl, Fegelein's wife. Eva has a couple of things she wants her sister to have, one is diamond watch that she gave to Fegelein to get repaired. This watch was in the valaise that Fegelein and the mystery lady had packed away in the valaise for the getaway.

[Hagen]

Who was this women? We know she had blonde hair with a touch of red.


Guensche states; "Fegeleins misstress was classier than most of his other women. She was goodlooking, tall, well groomed, her hair was blonde with a reddish tint. She was thirtyish. I heard that she had a husband, a foreign diplomat, conveniently out of town.

Hans Baur, Mohnke, and Guensche are all agreed that the lady was the wife of a senior Hungarian diplomat. And that the couple had arrived in Berlin in 1943 when relations between Germany and Hungary were beginning to cool.

Where had Fegelein met this women? Hans Baur states their first meeting took place at a party in the summer of 1944 at the Goebbels villa in Schwanenwerder. (In the book this brings forth the thought that maybe her initial attempt to place herself into high Nazi circles was actually to be with Goebbels. A notorious women chaser.)

O'Donnell says he followed leads to Budapest, London, Dublin, Galway, Salzburg all leads to our ladys identity dried up. Again from the book;

"Was the legendary Mata O' Hara the same lady who went out the window that midnight in Bleibtreustrase? It's a fascinating angle to an otherwise sordid story- "How I slept with Hermann Fegelein and screwed the Fuhrer."

[joyarjun1]

Thank you, Cap'n for more info!
Yes, I have the film Der Untergang but I did not pay attn. to that lady! Next time I watch it, I'm going to take a good look at her.

[MAGNA]

I think Borman was a soviet agent in a book by Colin Forbes too. I can't remember the name but in it Hitler dies in a plane crash in about 1942 and is replaced by a double. It's a good story. At the end Borman escapes to Russia and is shot to cover things up.

Even though it is doubtful that he was a spy it is good for a story or two.

[Troy Tempest]

There is no way Martin Bormann was a spy, he was absolutely devoted AND entirely dependent on the Führer for his position and power. Apart from being at Hitler's side almost every woken minute, he wouldn't have had much time to engage in his alleged spying duties. He also definitely did not survive the war, despite the many tales to the contrary. He committed suicide in the streets of Berlin after the breakout from the Bunker. His body was found exactly where Artur Axmann said he saw it, along with one of the Führer's doctors, Dr Stumpfegger. Dental records backed that up in 1972 and DNA put it beyond doubt in 1998.

[MAGNA]

Originally Posted by Troy Tempest

There is no way Martin Bormann was a spy, he was absolutely devoted AND entirely dependent on the Führer for his position and power. Apart from being at Hitler's side almost every woken minute, he wouldn't have had much time to engage in his alleged spying duties. He also definitely did not survive the war, despite the many tales to the contrary. He committed suicide in the streets of Berlin after the breakout from the Bunker. His body was found exactly where Artur Axmann said he saw it, along with one of the Führer's doctors, Dr Stumpfegger. Dental records backed that up in 1972 and DNA put it beyond doubt in 1998.

Thanks Troy. That all makes sense. There are those who won't see the sense in it but most would accept what you say as not only plausible but logical too.
The dental records and DNA are something I hadn't heard about either.

[Troy Tempest]

Ah yes, Marty Bormann, the secret ruler of the Third Reich! The Führer's Shadow! The keeper of secrets! He would definitely be one of the Third Reich guys I would have liked to interview if given the chance! I have a great book called Bormann: The Man Who Manipulated Hitler by Jochen von Lang, 1977 in German, 1979 in English. Jochen von Lang was the guy who proved he was really dead, and had been since May 1945. The following is the blurb from the inside cover:

Martin Bormann's name came up again and again at the Nurmemburg trials as the man responsible for some of the most nefarious acts of the Third Reich. Officially he had been Hitler's private secretary - and almost inseparable companion. He was condemned to death in absentia, and during the next quarter-century two dozen alleged 'Bormanns' were discovered in different parts of the globe. Finally, in 1972, thanks in large part to the investigative work of the author of this book, Bormann's remains were discovered and identified in Berlin, where he had killed himself shortly after Hitler's death.

This book is the story not only of the dramatic discovery of Bormann's remains but of the man himself - the most incredible story of a not very talented, totally unimaginative, dedicated, ruthless, crafty and tireless bureacrat, who skilfully played on Hitler's weaknesses until he had made himself the most powerful man in Germany next to his master. It is perhaps the most devastating picture yet of the arbitrariness and disorganization of the Third Reich. Even more important, it is a chilling case history of how a desire for power and a will to succeed can, if all other considerations are put aside, carry a man to the top.

It is an excellent book, and shines a light on one of the most interesting characters of the Third Reich, a guy who came from nowhere to eventually gain almost total control over access to the Führer, almost completely unknown outside of the inner circle and top generals, yet wielded enormous power. How many generals were refused permission to see Hitler, or were forced to cool their heels waiting for hours because Bormann said so is amazing. The story of how Himmler had to come to him and ask for a loan because of his precarious financial position is pretty funny, and his ruthless manipulation of Hitler regarding Göring's final telegram to Hitler asking, quite reasonably, if he should assume control of what was left of the armed forces due to Hitler's decision to stay in the bunker, was revealing in how he could carry a grudge for so long against Göring, and pounce at the chance to finally nail him when there was only days left before the end. For his troubles, Jochen von Lang was attacked by some Jewish and non-Jewish groups as an anti-semite and neo-nazi Hitlerite, for trying to throw attention off the hunt for Bormann with this phony 'evidence' that he provided, which proved Bormann was really dead. The photo on the back cover shows von Lang and a dental expert examining Bormann's skull. Thoroughly recommended!

[Potsdamerplatz]

Originally Posted by MAGNA

I think Borman was a soviet agent in a book by Colin Forbes too. I can't remember the name but in it Hitler dies in a plane crash in about 1942 and is replaced by a double. It's a good story. At the end Borman escapes to Russia and is shot to cover things up.

Even though it is doubtful that he was a spy it is good for a story or two.

The book is called "The Leader and the Damned" and it's one of my favourite works of fiction. I can definitely recommend this book to everyone - once you start reading you won't be able to put it back down again until you've finished.

Kind regards.